Studio Visit Book Vol. 1

Carrie Scott on feminism in the art world: What drives her fusion of art, business, and feminist ideals?

Watch & Listen to this podcast Episode.

This week on our Arts to Hearts Podcast, our host Charuka Arora has invited Carrie Scott to talk about her career as a writer, curator, art historian, and TV presenter. As Carrie and Charuka sit down, they talk about the art world, wearing multiple hats as a creative, and how women are expected to behave in a patriarchal world.

Carrie Scott started her career as a writer, but soon she shifted her focus towards the art world. Carrie’s passion for helping artists was a major catalyst behind her professional decisions. From being at a writing agency to doing temporary exhibits, she has come a long way in her creative journey. What always drove Carrie was her love for arts and how she found purpose in this field. At the same time, she acknowledges the baggage that comes with being in the art world, as being an artist is not an easy job, contrary to what many people still believe.

For Carrie, her career took a significant turn, when in 2009, recession happened. For her, it ended up being a blessing in disguise because Carrie was able to launch her own business at a gallery and an art consultancy. Over the past decade, Carrie has worked with numerous well known artists including Nick Knight and Marina Shacola. Carrie’s approach is centered on collaboration and building meaningful partnerships. She seeks out artists who have a clear vision, and helps them navigate the art world, whether it’s through exhibitions, publications, or other creative projects.

In this week’s episode, Carrie also talks about not just women in general, but also women in arts. Since the beginning, Carrie has noticed the stark contrast between the treatment of women and men, and she highlights how in this day and age, women still have to fight for equal pay. Discussing the place of women in today’s world, Carrie calls attention to the fact that not much has changed between the 80s and now, and there is still need for a lot of change in the society.

To listen to more of this insightful conversation and understand how Carrie Scott was able to build a successful career without a definite plan, tune in to this week’s podcast.

TimestampSummary
01:40Discussing the challenge of having multiple identities
07:12Expressing a passion for bringing art to life
13:29Discussion about cultural background and identity
19:18Seattle art community and creative projects
31:44.61Balancing work and personal life as an artist
33:14.37The importance of leaning into what you love
43:20.23Carrie’s unexpected journey into the art world
51:12.84The importance of belief and not giving up
56:18.82The experience of women in the art world
01:12:53.79Importance of communication between genders for progress
01:15:10.26Carrie’s advice for female artists

**** – (): 00:00.00

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Welcome to the podcast cave I’m very very excited to have you here today.

**** – (): 00:05.61

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): I am I’m honored. Honestly, thank you so much. Um, for inviting me and as you may or may not know it’s thanksgiving in America and though I am based in the u k um I was busy this morning like stuffing the turkey and and drawing everything into the into the oven. So it’s awesome.

**** – (): 00:11.57

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh yes.

**** – (): 00:22.00

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, oh my god.

**** – (): 00:23.20

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): It’s the perfect. The turkey is in and now I get to sit and have a conversation with you. So it’s perfect.

**** – (): 00:27.88

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Amazing. That’s so nice. Thank you and I wish you a happy Thanksgiving and everyone who’s also listening to us right now. But yeah, yeah, yeah, we have um.

**** – (): 00:37.34

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): There um, do you you you have a pretty big user user base in America right.

**** – (): 00:44.86

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Even though I’m sitting in India um, a lot of our um listeners a lot of our community members are distribution channels for our magazine ah books everything is in Europe and us.

**** – (): 00:58.13

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Awesome! Awesome! So there will be some people who are also stuffing Turkeys and.

**** – (): 01:03.73

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, yes, Absolutely absolutely. I’m very excited to actually hear from you first before we go you know into a lot of things that you do which is something that I really want to talk to you about you know you’ve worked in traditional Arts. You’re a Tv presenter you a curator writer. Many caps I get that look I get you I get you? but um I think the hardest decision some question I get sometimes there’s been people ask who am I one do I do and I feel like which one should I pick and I feel like the look you just gave is something that you resonate with.

**** – (): 01:40.32

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): It I mean god nail on the head. Ah with that 1 right? I I I sort of um, you know I I started out in the art world. Ah almost sixteen years ago seventeen years ago and that like idea of a multi hyphenated person.

**** – (): 01:50.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow Yeah, yes, absolutely.

**** – (): 01:57.70

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Didn’t exist but but it’s it’s who I’ve always been you know I um I love the idea of doing everything not just doing 1 thing and I think that’s probably my like liberal arts background and upbringing. Um, but.

**** – (): 02:07.44

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): 1 thing.

**** – (): 02:16.52

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): So you know I am technically an art historian and sometimes at a cocktail party I’ll say well hi I’m an art historian and then other times I say I’m an entrepreneur and I set up my own business fourteen years ago and I exist kind of outside of the traditional space that galleries exist in. Um.

**** – (): 02:17.75

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 02:29.70

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And yeah.

**** – (): 02:34.33

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Then other times I’m just like I work in the art world. Ah you know if I’m in a taxi I’ll be like I sell art. Um, and then yeah I’ll I’ll occasionally say I do some art Broadcasting. Um, but I I do ah I do a lot of things and I wear a lot of hats and I have a small business and I think that’s. That’s kind of the case with all of us right? But um, you know before before you hit record you were telling me your story and I and I think it you know in the best possible way we kind of are all out here hustling and trying to make a space for ourselves that is the thing we want.

**** – (): 02:52.35

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 03:09.56

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 03:11.21

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Right? I I was in in the art world I was running galleries and um I was running a gallery in New York ah and the idea was very much that I was there to sell and that was it and I wasn’t supposed to think about um the exhibition plan or install.

**** – (): 03:15.33

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 03:31.10

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): I wasn’t really supposed to ah trouble myself with like anything that distracted me from selling and that it just didn’t work for me. You know I wanted to be in with the artists I want to be with the installers I wanted to.

**** – (): 03:36.59

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Then yeah.

**** – (): 03:50.50

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): I’m yeah I wanted to be like fully in it. Sorry my dog is barking at something probably a bird.

**** – (): 03:53.56

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, no problem I love that I love the sound of dogs I I love animals I have 2 dogs of my own for actually now too. Yeah, so always welcomed. Um, so I have been rescuing dogs for a very long time now.

**** – (): 04:01.81

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Oh do you? What kind of dogs.

**** – (): 04:12.75

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): So um, one is a mix of a lot of mixes. She’s a labrador with a mix of an alatian and ah indian and the show she’s called Dora she’s the naughty one and then we have Kim who’s a labrador chem. She’s.

**** – (): 04:24.20

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Well insane.

**** – (): 04:31.16

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): She she was abandoned on the road. So we caught her you know, rescued her and she’s our little baby now.

**** – (): 04:32.74

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): So that that’s a that’s a lab mix as well and also a girl so it sounds like you you too me too.

**** – (): 04:39.86

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh oh Wow I Love email dogs I said you know in the beginning of the podcast. We have a lot of and a lot in common. Yeah, okay tell me something if you are.

**** – (): 04:49.26

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): I Think that’s true I Think that’s true.

**** – (): 04:57.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Something I I recently heard and I want I I keep asking this question to a lot of people now you know this is in the age that we are today. It’s not this or that this ah it is this and that we no longer are into profiles and professions where you’re either. Ah, historian or a curator or an artist or a business owner. It’s artist and business owner historian and curator and writer and that and can go forever.

Um, if you are to be identified as like you know, um, a lot of times when people ask you what you do. You know a long list of those names is not the easiest What do you think is your internally um and I also think a lot of people also address this identity with the money that is coming from the popularity but it’s also confusing in our heads as well. So what is that 1 identity. You associate yourself. The most today if I were to ask you.

**** – (): 05:57.63

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Um, that’s so hard. Um, that is so hard I think probably probably um.

**** – (): 06:15.31

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): There isn’t a word for me I mean that’s such a cop out. It’s such a cop out but I don’t think there is you know I I don’t know I’m not a traditional curator in the sense that you know I don’t have a single collection that I’m looking after I don’t work at a museum I don’t have an institution. Um I do shows.

**** – (): 06:28.91

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 06:34.89

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): I do that and um I’ve done some extraordinarily exciting shows and I’ve and I have curated them and so yes I am a curator. Yes I am an art historian but I’ve written an art historical paper in fifteen years sixteen years ah you know.

**** – (): 06:38.37

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, yes.

**** – (): 06:48.60

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, that’s the head talking. Yeah, that’s the head talking.

**** – (): 06:54.13

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): It’s the head talking. That’s the head talking but but but I think that I think you know I could I could distill more easily like what’s my what drives me and I can only distill that because because like you I think. In the last couple years I have been asking myself. Why like what drives me and what pushes me and that’s a question I ask the artists that I work with all the time like why do you do? What you do And what do you want from it. Um, and I think for me, it’s always been about bringing art to life and i.

**** – (): 07:12.89

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 07:30.40

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah I Love that.

**** – (): 07:30.36

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Don’t care how I do it I Just want to do it. You know I want to get people in front of Artworks and I want them to talk about it and I want it to be loud and I want people to go to museums and to say I don’t get it. Can someone like you know, tell me.

**** – (): 07:42.89

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Tell me.

**** – (): 07:46.72

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Or not even like I don’t get it and talk to the person next to you who might not be an expert but who who will say oh exactly exactly like just talk. So if you can figure out a word for that like what is that role then I got it.

**** – (): 07:48.37

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, have a conversation. Yeah.

**** – (): 08:01.89

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I’m going to think about this I’m going to think about this. But oh you know what? Ah you know there is a word that so you know I I so I have had this for so long I would.

**** – (): 08:06.21

**** – (): Carrie Scott

**** – (): Or I think you need you need the same word I think you need the same word right.

**** – (): 08:18.36

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Do so many things and then at the end of the day I really resonate with what you said because so a lot of times when I write now I like write a creator because for me for all I care is I’m a compulsive creator like for me I’m a person who like even if I’m I’m sleeping or before bed or something. If. There’s an idea I literally like I am a person who sees in Visuals.

Um I’m extremely excited by ideas of creating something if you tell me we have a discussion and you’re like ok you know how we could do this and I’m like now I start visualizing it. And have this compulsive desire to create I don’t care if one day I’m creating a painting a business um and exhibit a book. Ah I don’t know a house of furniture. Um and food for that matter I think for me though I know what I feel like the flow state when I’m creating something and I think.

**** – (): 09:08.86

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Who.

**** – (): 09:12.57

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): That drives me that drives me so much because there’s there’s no other way I would do it.

**** – (): 09:19.45

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I think you’re well yeah I mean that that sounds very similar to my process. Um, you know I’ve got about I looked yesterday it was like 625 notes on my phone which are just like.

**** – (): 09:33.47

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh why I haven’t dared to count that. Ah oh well.

**** – (): 09:37.16

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, but it says it on the side. Um, and I was like I should go through some of these because ah they’re rubbish or they’re just older. You know it’s how I it’s how I do Instagram god god forbid that um, anyone actually I have this amazing woman who who works with clients and I um on.

**** – (): 09:44.18

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 09:56.21

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): On social media and she would she would kill me if if I admitted this but I do all my social media in notes like and I and then I edit them in there and then I chuck them up I’m so ad hoc about it and I’m so disorganized and and she is amazing because Brittany always has the content calendars and stuff and spreadsheets and.

**** – (): 10:11.41

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 10:12.93

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): You know and then you can go back and you can repost the stuff that mine is totally disorgandized but I do everything in notes and I’ll you know if I see something or I read something or I I you know it’s it all goes into notes to then later digest to later think about. So I think.

**** – (): 10:20.25

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, same year same year. There’s another great advice I receive here was this which I did try to follow not as much which was um I started writing these things into a word doc. And somebody advised me that you know if you start because I love writing somebody said that if you start writing in a document 1 place in whatever if you’re writing for arts 2 hearts if you’re writing for your art. Whatever and if you keep on writing page on paints. 1 date could become a great book. I was like that’s a great idea.

The only block is that I’m not going to be as organized as this yet in my life. So I would do that I still have a dock when I I remember that I often go there and write and it it has a lot of pages now.

**** – (): 11:04.18

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, ah.

**** – (): 11:09.95

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And I really liked that idea because it did really make sense because oh wow yeah and in ah, in a way I’m writing a book which is literally documenting that process and my thoughts and I can look back and see okay how I’m evolving into it. But yeah.

**** – (): 11:23.28

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): That’s really smart I’m doing a ah series I’m about to in in March of next year I’ll be launching a ah new. Um, initiative as part of my business but um, and for that it’s called scene SE and um, and.

**** – (): 11:37.57

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay, is that one you were recording so who well.

**** – (): 11:40.62

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I’m doing a yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, and ah so for that we’re doing I’m doing an art world 1 a 1 like what is a curator. What is a what’s the primary market versus the secondary market and for that one the art world one a ones they are all in 1

**** – (): 11:48.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay, ugly.

**** – (): 11:59.46

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): File. But again it’s because I can just go into Google docs and like quickly even on my phone like oh actually we should talk about how do you auction offer work. Um, so so that’s genius though I might just do that for all of seen just make it 1 thing.

**** – (): 12:01.70

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 12:10.85

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You would need to yeah and you know in the world that we live in today I feel like as creative people. There’s so much creation. We’re already doing subconsciously. We’re we’re almost in a wheel of that you know creating a post then. Writing a caption editing a reel writing a script um sending a letter and you know all of that if we really did put it into 1 place. We all have our own books don’t be so many books actually.

**** – (): 12:42.70

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): It’s I mean and also that is a lifelong goal of mine I I always when I was a kid I wanted to be a writer. Um and I still in the back of my head I Love the idea that I would have a book out there in the world. Um, but.

**** – (): 12:47.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh wow.

**** – (): 12:57.39

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Same year. But no, we this is our is yes this is how we do it I’m sure we will Okay, let’s start now that you’ve spoken about you wanted to pay. What did you really want to be can if we talk a little bit about you early years. Um.

**** – (): 12:59.83

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Who has the time. So maybe this is how we get the time. Yeah.

**** – (): 13:14.64

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I know you’ve born and brought up in the u k you’re currently living there but you also just mentioned you’re celebrating Thanksgiving can you talk a little bit about your culture references how you grew up your interest in the arts your exposure. What brought you here.

**** – (): 13:29.22

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): You know what? thank you so much for asking me that question. Um, often people don’t and ah well I think everyone always assumes I’m just American Um, and and I’m not right I was born in the U k.

**** – (): 13:33.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh really, this is my first question. Okay, now you.

**** – (): 13:46.69

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I moved to the states when I was 5 with my mom and my stepdad my father was still here. Um in the uk and I I you know my whole life I have straddled both these cultures and and my accent as a result is a bit confused. Um I’m yelling.

**** – (): 13:57.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Identities. Yeah.

**** – (): 14:04.55

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): If I’m yelling at my children I’m like Mary Poppins I’m so british ah, but you know if I’m with my friends I’m this sort of loud american um I’ve almost done fifty fifty in terms of time in the US and the UK.Ah

**** – (): 14:09.78

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah.

**** – (): 14:17.18

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 14:21.41

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And I honestly I I don’t don’t feel like I really belong in either place entirely? Yeah so I love I mean I love them both and they’re bits of both cultures that um I adore. But but when I meet british people for the first time they’re like ah.

**** – (): 14:24.17

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Anyway, yeah yeah.

**** – (): 14:38.82

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Ah, you’re american I’m like no no I’m english I’m Englishamerican and then when I’m an America they’re like oh you’re english I’m like then I no no I’m Englishamerican so so but I think that that’s played a really interesting role in um, in kind of how I see art because I’m i’m.

**** – (): 14:44.32

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 14:55.14

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 14:59.11

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Or no matter what I’m asking questions right? because I’m interested in people and I’m interested in cultures and I’m interested in our experience of the world and so I think that my my sort of ah ah mo walking around is like oh hey, who are you? What are you trying to do where are you from because I’m like.

**** – (): 15:01.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 15:15.30

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, investigating you.

**** – (): 15:18.60

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I’m this kind of weird. Yeah, exactly? Um, so I mean the the potted history as as I said I always wanted to be a writer I went to um, an amazing liberal arts school in Pennsylvania teeny tiny called Dickinson College and there I majored in english um. And I minored in fine art but I ended up with enough credits with enough credits to actually have double majored I didn’t double major because I was too busy ah doing art history. Ah fine art and english and I I was just so happy and right out of uni. Um.

**** – (): 15:37.35

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh wow.

**** – (): 15:54.24

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I got a job with Condine Nast in New York and I kind of thought I was like I’ve done it I’m going to be a writer. It’s great and then Conine Nass was not um, was not perfect. It was it was very corporate and yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 15:54.48

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay, okay oh my God Yeah yeah.

**** – (): 16:05.87

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): What expected Yeah, heard that a lot of ah lot of time actually from a lot of people now.

**** – (): 16:13.96

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): it’s it’s listen it’s an amazing place. The building was super cool. It’s 4 times square I was I was a baby. Um, we got to do so much and I was looking after the online part of it. This is 2001 so online was kind of in its infancy. Um, and ah.

**** – (): 16:16.69

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, yeah.

**** – (): 16:27.48

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, yeah.

**** – (): 16:33.90

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And and but for a number of reasons I wasn’t it. It wasn’t right for me. Um, and so one of the benefits and it was a benefit of ah working there was that they gave you you had membership to every single major museum in the in New York so

**** – (): 16:38.12

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 16:49.31

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 16:52.30

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Whitney Moma um you know Guggenheim we had full membership and go there and those places became like my church so post September Eleventh which was a really really sad time and an impossible time for me just to compute what had happened.

**** – (): 16:54.82

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You had.

**** – (): 17:10.70

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I was going to museums all the time. Um, and this sounds like a movie but I was sat in ah the Gerhart Victor show he had a retrospective I had never heard of him. Um, and it was a retrospective I think at Moma I should look this up.

**** – (): 17:11.79

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): The time.

**** – (): 17:27.33

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And a security guard was like you have been here 10 times girl. What are you doing here and she was this like amazing new yorker she was just like what are you doing girl and I was like oh I just I love the work and I’m like broke and I’ve nowhere else to go. Um I didn’t.

**** – (): 17:37.69

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Hip.

**** – (): 17:41.56

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And I have a few pause.

**** – (): 17:45.40

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Ah, exactly free pass hello ah, and she was like she’s like are you, you’re not an artist. They said? no no, no, not an artist. She’s like you work in art world. No I don’t work in the art world. I just love the work and we had this like lovely conversation I left there and a couple weeks later I thought you know what I got it. I got to do this as a job so applied to grad school.

Um I only applied to well I applied to grad school New York London and then ah California and seat and Seattle Washington um I mean so random. the the Seattle Washington one but there was a professor there who I had read something she had written and her name was Patricia failing and I loved it and I was like I’d never been there I was like I’m gonna apply there I didn’t get into and Ny you I didn’t get into the court holds here I was heartbroken.

**** – (): 18:31.47

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 18:42.40

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, and I got into the University Of Washington They gave me a little bit of money and I was like I’m going to go there had being never been there. So got there and it was amazing. It was this the program was epic. Um, but the city was even better.

**** – (): 18:46.80

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): This is me. Yeah.

**** – (): 19:01.36

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): So the the art scene there. It’s small but mighty and that’s the only way to describe it. You have these incredible collectors and collections. Um, and you have these creative people who are willing to kind of. Do.

**** – (): 19:06.40

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 19:18.82

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Anything and everything so people like Greg Lungren who he had an art bar. He did a 24 hour play um and in 1 of his bars. He had this vending machine like a jukebox almost that you’d put money in and then you’d get a limited edition.

**** – (): 19:29.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 19:35.30

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And not a limit an original painting by 1 of the seattle artists. So like all this weird. It was so cool. So cool. All this weird creative stuff. Um, and.

**** – (): 19:37.65

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow Oh God It Really must have opened you as like a young literally like because I think in those years we’re like it’s like just absorbing it really opens up your mind even if you like close on later. It’s like you still know? What’s what’s still out there.

**** – (): 19:59.60

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): You’re so right and that was the thing is that you know you know you had collectors who um, Bill and Ruth True they they built a ah like warehouse space that was part public part private.

**** – (): 20:10.45

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Private.

**** – (): 20:12.91

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And had all their video works because they had the one of the biggest video collections. Um, at the time I mean and and so I interned for them and then they put me forward to run a nonprofit that was attached to a different university in Seattle and then someone ah said. No I think they said the truths also said you need to meet James Harris who had this gallery and so I went and worked for him and you could just do all this. You could do stuff right? and then I started writing for the newspaper. Um, and it just felt like.

**** – (): 20:39.60

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 20:49.58

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Nothing was impossible like anything anything was possible. Um, and and Jim James Harris Jim was was amazing. You know taught me how to build a crate taught me how to paint a wall taught me how to talk to clients. Ah. And and he he just he was the most supportive incredible boss. Um, and and then so I was with him for like 3 years and then or maybe 2 years Um and then I yeah oh god the sun’s come out I’m gonna be blind for a minute.

**** – (): 21:09.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow.

**** – (): 21:25.95

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, it you have a golden light. Yes, ah.

**** – (): 21:26.48

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): It’s going to go away again. It’s england um, the golden light. It’s coming in. Ah yeah, and then I was I was in New York for I think it was armory. Um, and my brother. Ah, he was.

**** – (): 21:38.65

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 21:45.55

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Working he does nontraditional marketing. He still does nontraditional marketing. He’s older than me. Um and he and I say he’s older than me because he’s always more organized and um and this was the first instance where he wasn’t or something had happened and someone couldn’t work the door for him on an event.

**** – (): 21:47.88

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow.

**** – (): 22:04.29

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And I was in town. Ah for the armory art fair and he said to me hey do you want to work the door for me I’ll give you another two hundred bucks or something and as you know the art world does not pay at the bottom. Ah so I was like perfect give me the extra $200 and I was sat at the door.

**** – (): 22:14.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, yeah, yes, yeah.

**** – (): 22:22.94

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And this group of really cool looking people came up um and their names were not on the list for the thing. Ah and and 1 of them said something like well hey I’m an artist and I was like well hey I’m an art history graduate student.

**** – (): 22:26.89

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 22:42.33

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): What do you do right? We just had this ridiculous exchange and that person turned out to be um, Rashid Johnson who is now our household name I went back looked him up. Um, he had given me I think his email I sent him an email saying.

**** – (): 22:48.15

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh how.

**** – (): 22:57.70

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow.

**** – (): 23:01.12

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I mean we were babies right? like ah I think I sent an email 2006 I mean so long ago 2006 of 7 something like that I send him an email saying I think your work really cool. He had just finished grad school. Um.

**** – (): 23:03.21

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): How long ago was this? Okay yeah.

**** – (): 23:20.16

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And I was like I’d love to do a show here. He was like hey yeah up for it. Um I then said to my said to Jim I was like this guy’s really cool. We should do this. He sharked his shoulders and was like that’ll be the first show. You do go for it. Um.

**** – (): 23:23.86

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh well.

**** – (): 23:35.43

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow.

**** – (): 23:38.70

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And so I curated my first ever exhibition with with Rashid. Ah it and and then and then he got picked up by a New York Gallery who he suggested um that I should go to New York and run.

**** – (): 23:44.71

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Rashid we knew.

**** – (): 23:56.74

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, and so I moved I don’t I don’t know yeah like six months after that. So that’s the that’s the quick history before we get into like okay when did when did I start on my own.

**** – (): 23:58.67

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): To New York

**** – (): 24:11.78

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, no, but tell me something um, out of all of this I’m gonna I just want to ask you a few questions. My first question did you have anyone or any kind of connect when it came to the artwork. Did you have anyone any influence so you were on your own you brought yourself here.

**** – (): 24:33.61

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, do you mean like is anyone in my family or.

**** – (): 24:36.73

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah I mean um I think because you know what I think I think art world and I might be wrong I I might be missing a lot of those details but I typically you know art world hollywood bollivewood and India like these are some kind of professions that people feel like. You know there’s a doctor engineer all of these you know there’s academics. This is still a set pattern. They’re not as untraditional. Um they are considered to be a lot more safe. Academically you know more prestigious and well-paying all of it versus.

**** – (): 25:09.33

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 25:11.31

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): creative jobs and creative jobs like in the art world. They are not mass jobs. They’re not as common. Not everybody has an artist at home a curator at home or you know a collector or like you know a museum but you know these are not as read at least from where I come so it’s not it’s and then there’s there’s a huge. Difference in the sense fighting lifestyle for example from where I came I never went to so in India and there’s not a there’s no museum culture as such.

It’s it’s gotten better like I said in the beginning also India’ ‘ is a very craft different country. So um, even if you walk today, you’ll see like. You’ll see so much art and draft on the roads itself even without going to a museum. Um, we have um we have had some some incredible um you know ways of how people engage but going to museums and galleries has never been that I never went to 1 till I actually went to Lou that was my first time a museum with it then I started it then when I got got into the arts. Yeah, of course so it always felt like it was an unapproachable dream or a place where you know it was only for the rich or this will you know did you ever feel that.

**** – (): 26:24.20

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 26:26.80

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Before you got into it.

**** – (): 26:30.27

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, it’s a great. It’s a great question. Ah, and you know as ah as a young girl. My parents definitely exposed me to museums.

**** – (): 26:38.12

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 26:43.63

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Amazing. Yeah.

**** – (): 26:44.89

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): In a way that obviously you’re you’re saying you you didn’t um and you know famously my father hates it when I tell the story but um, when when I came over to the u k he had a client who was and he was a financial advisor but he had a client who. Lived or had an office on the same square as the Wallace collection. Um, which is an incredible building and anyone that’s in London should go there. It’s totally underrated and and um people forget that it’s there and it’s gorgeous. It’s just gorgeous. Um you know and they have ah the fragonard famous.

**** – (): 27:06.72

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 27:23.45

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Swing painting. Um, they’ve got like Knights and shining armor. But anyway they ah my dad my dad would regularly and I don’t know how old we were but we were young enough. We were young enough that I can remember thinking this is awesome. He would take us there.

**** – (): 27:33.68

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 27:40.46

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Nice. Well.

**** – (): 27:42.55

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And leave us. He’d go to his meeting and my elder brother and I would be left in the museum and I don’t know if you like talk to the security guards. This is the eighty s so like anything you know it didn’t matter and it was definitely like don’t leave the museum just stay here. Whatever.

**** – (): 27:47.34

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow.

**** – (): 27:53.85

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, but still safer I don’t know how many parents would be would you be as a parent today willing to do that.

**** – (): 28:04.47

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Hell no I mean I one I’d be worried that the children would break something. Um and I’d be were exactly exactly like there’s no way. Ah, there’s no way.

**** – (): 28:12.22

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, and now that you know the cost of it and what would that bring on you.

**** – (): 28:22.63

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): So I think but yeah, so he he did that. Um and I would just hang out there and in in boredom I can remember kind of making up stories about the works in the collection I can remember starting to sketch the stuff I mean I I’d loved it.

**** – (): 28:32.25

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Started.

**** – (): 28:42.36

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And then obviously beingcyclist in New York growing up I we lived sort of 40 minutes as head of the city and whenever my mom could she drag us to museums and then my godfather who was really present in my life. He he loves the arts. Um, but you know it wasn’t a collector There were no curators. I’m my mom’s a psychoanalyst my my dad was a financial advisor. My stepfather’s an accountant you know I was not yeah we were I was not in the art world at all. But I was by virtue of them taking me to things ah and and listen that the the thing I always.

**** – (): 29:13.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 29:21.58

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Think now or looking back. It’s like if I knew if I knew one that it would be quite so difficult as in you know I’ve seen my friends who’ve got who have much more traditional jobs and their careers have just done that um I wonder if I’d do it again.

**** – (): 29:28.60

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 29:35.69

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I relate to that? Yeah yeah.

**** – (): 29:41.38

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): You know? or or if I just be like okay just do the things you got to do to get the museum job to like be at the tippy top and then you know.

**** – (): 29:49.26

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I think what you mean to say is probably um, venture out on your own I don’t know if that’s because I think you know a lot of times. This is a conversation because I um I come from so in India um, being being a business owner is is very common.

**** – (): 29:54.33

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, yeah.

**** – (): 30:07.30

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, I come from a family. My father was a business owner my grandfather my brother so I always saw it in them I inherently learned from them in the sense of but I was a woman there was no woman as a business owner. Yeah yes, yes, please.

**** – (): 30:21.70

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I’m listening I’m just gonna draw this curtain because for like the first day. It’s been sunny and God knows how long hold on just like to see you.

**** – (): 30:25.60

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Please. Ah.

**** – (): 30:28.25

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): No problem.

**** – (): 30:32.63

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, okay there we go. Oh now I’m not going blind. Okay so Businesswoman tell me.

**** – (): 30:35.75

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, ah, yeah, so I’ve none I hadn’t seen like you know business as women. There were no business women in the sense and if women at all had careers. It was like maybe you know, get a job do a job then get married I think that’s. That’s the tragically that I’d seen for a really long time but um it I think um, people say that if you went to do out on your own There’s so much more freedom. You know, Etc, etc, etc which is true.

What people often, don’t tell you is. You have the freedom to decide what you do when where you are doing it all the time you do not have 9 to 5 you have a twenty first seven job ah the stability is on a stake There’s like also like you know like you just said a lot lot of time people also say that you should do a business or a job something that you really enjoy. Flip side to that is also sometimes when you make something that you do for fun a job sometimes the fun also goes away and you have it’s such a tricky balance to always make sure that you know how have you dealt with it. You know from switching from you know, being in the traditional world. Also.

**** – (): 31:44.61

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Out.

**** – (): 31:51.96

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And now being in this new age world I’d say right now for sake of a better word, but you know just just like.

**** – (): 31:58.97

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um I I feel that I feel it. So Ah I mean I feel what you said so deeply this like the the pros and cons of doing the thing that you love right? The thing. Ah. I You know I do like inexplicably I am drawn to art and and so as a result right? when most people get to just finish their day. They’re done. It doesn’t ever end for me and that’s not to say it’s because I don’t have like a work life balance I.

**** – (): 32:21.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 32:33.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 32:36.31

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I I probably don’t because like work is my life right? My my life is is work because I’ve I’ve picked the thing I love and my husband you know my husband and I talk about this a lot and he’s like but it’s so wonderful that you get you get to do the thing that that you love more than anything and I’m like.

**** – (): 32:39.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, yeah.

**** – (): 32:56.13

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): It It is but no, it’s really, it’s not and he doesn’t he of all people he he gets it. But as you said it’s like you know you go to bed or you’re going to bed and you think oh we will wait I I need to talk to.

**** – (): 32:57.12

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): It’s not as as easy as that.

**** – (): 33:03.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 33:11.76

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 33:14.37

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Bindi about the book because I’ve just had this massive idea and so you know you pick up your phone and get on and and yeah, it just it doesn’t it doesn’t ever end. Um, it doesn’t ever. Yeah, it doesn’t ever end but but I think as I’m getting.

**** – (): 33:16.80

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 33:29.00

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Love them. Yeah.

**** – (): 33:34.10

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Older getting older. Um I I don’t know that I’m getting better at it. Um, but actually I’m getting better at leaning into the things that I love more if that makes sense. So.

**** – (): 33:46.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 33:50.87

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Because this is our lives and this is the thing that we’ve chosen and we’re we’re doing the things that we love I think it’s really important to then say okay well what are the things I’m good at and what are the things I love and what are the things I’m bad at and that I don’t love about this job and can I go and find people who are better at it than me and collaborate with them.

**** – (): 34:02.79

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Who can yeah I think it definitely I Definitely would agree on this because I definitely feel it has something to do with H Um I’ve I’ve started businesses and been a creative for over a decade Now. And I’ve seen this in my own self in the sense of um I know that I had this attitude in the beginning which was I wanted to do it all by myself and now I’ve come to a point where okay I know this is really I only I only have this much of Bandwidth I would have really loved to do more.

I Really don’t want to I I choose this intentionally now and knowing that um I’m this far someone better than I am who’d be really able to do this job better than I would be and I think there’s also a sense of urgency that I. I wouldn’t say has completely gone but I think in the age and time that we are specifically for artists I think it’s become a very crucial time I remember I had a I really had this conversation with myself and I thankfully I had this experience.

There was a point where I was so busy with so many things and. Um I Intentionally chose my art not to be my source of you know Income. So I didn’t want to put put that much pressure on my creativity to bring money and at one point I started to think that am I Really like you know you you start to question yourself specifically I Think as people who are you know podcasters.

**** – (): 35:36.35

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Who have a habit of questions. Let’s say um and I started to question myself like you know why am I really doing this because I don’t know have done it for so long or I’m I mean I’m trying to prove something or I’m buying into an idea or something like that and I kept out questioning questioning and.

**** – (): 35:54.76

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Quickly realized that for me art was just something that I really had to do like I would become breathless or if I didn’t create something and there’s still days when if I don’t go in the studio if I’m not doing something. It’s It’s like the base of anything I Do I don’t care if I’m doing it for selling for myself in my studio.

I No longer like you know I said in the beginning when we were speaking like a lot of times our identities associated with how we’re making our moneys from but often our real Id identity is not where the money’s coming from the real identity is really what pulls us you know what crowns us if I’m not in the studio I know I’m I’m nowhere I know I’m. If I’m not being an artist I cannot be any of other things because everything stems from there.

So when you also you know in your owns by way Also read like you know you said you started a business which was ah an art gallery a consultancy and a supporting a unit for artists all at once and this is something that I’m sure. When you were starting was not as common like you know, um it it was either. You help artist you help collectors you help a gallery. It was either or or and I think just someone I think like you said the core was you being in the arts and you figured that there was some way you could. Really bring these Together. Can you talk a little bit about that and what was in your head even from then to now like how has a vision your experience evolved.

**** – (): 37:20.99

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I think I mean I love I Love hearing the thing. The thing that we forget about artists and I love that you just said this is that art is not the easy choice and and making art is hard right? Yeah artists they put they put themselves.

**** – (): 37:31.12

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, absolutely.

**** – (): 37:39.54

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): On the line to be criticized to be um, vulnerable they’re like their their whole lives are in the work and and I think that’s it’s so brave and we forget people are like oh being an artist is so easy like sit around you paint and you’re like no dude.

**** – (): 37:56.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, yeah, not to do anymore? No yeah, yeah yeah.

**** – (): 37:59.16

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): It it isn’t it’s not no and but was it ever no I mean van gog told 1 painting in his lifetime. Sure we all know his name now but like it has never been. It’s it’s never the easy choice and I think most artists.

**** – (): 38:13.23

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): But you know what? that is also you know how? um, how juxtaposition is in it in this old sentence as well. Like you know we are calling someone who’s sold one work so far the father of the century like he’s the art artist of the century. And if I were to tell you today. The first question if someone comes in as an artist and somebody will tell you I’m an artist also, where do you show your work. Oh do you have a gallery how much work have you sold? Um, do you?

You know it’s it’s such a paradox like how are identities like you know if you. You’re a writer somebody would ask you I remember someone telling me this also so strange she said like you know I am an author and somebody asked her first time. Oh which which publication are you associate who published your work and she said I self-published so you know how how paradoxical it is. So someone how we associate identities today versus sorry I cut you I forgot.

**** – (): 39:07.22

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): No, but but this is that this is a debate I’ve been having for a while with anyone that will talk to me about it. It’s like you know there is a name for 1% of of the artists in the world. As in people, we call artists are the people that are represented by galleries.

**** – (): 39:24.76

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, yes.

**** – (): 39:27.30

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): That’s it right? Then there’s everybody else who’s you know? ah who may be selling work on Etsy who may be a graphic designer who may be painting every day or drawing every day but they don’t have representation and they’re not selling so we slightly need to to. Ah.

**** – (): 39:34.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, yeah.

**** – (): 39:47.20

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Define right? What? what? What is an artist. Um, but ah to get back to your point about my business God I mean I never had a plan I would love to say that like I knew what I was doing I never had a plan.

**** – (): 39:47.59

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Broaden. Yeah.

**** – (): 40:03.38

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I’m Nicole Klegsburn so I worked for her for two thousand in two thousand and eight and 2009 I got to her in may of 2008 and obviously New York fell apart again? Um, so I mean if I ever say I’m moving to New York I always say this to people like just don’t. Like short the market or something because every time I’ve moved there as a grownup, it’s it’s been a disaster for the whole city. Um, but so she and then she laid me off ah because the world was selling apart again. I was completely devastated. Um.

**** – (): 40:25.41

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And then.

**** – (): 40:38.85

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Because my whole identity was was working and and being like I had never failed at something and I felt like I failed I mean I really felt like I failed and everyone kept saying to me you haven’t failed like this is layoffs like this is we’re on the worst recession ever does that.

**** – (): 40:39.67

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Being in the gang. Yeah.

**** – (): 40:48.42

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 40:57.33

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): But I couldn’t see it that way. Um, and then I thought okay well, how am I going to I mean after like I’m a lot of tears and a lot of bottles of wine and a few weeks of like what am I going to do and how am I going to pay the bills. Um I thought.

**** – (): 41:12.96

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Drowning? yeah.

**** – (): 41:17.30

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): You know, maybe well I applied for some jobs none of them worked out and then I was like you know what I got to do this myself I don’t have a mortgage I don’t have any kids I I’m almost thirty I was 28 at the time 29 twenty eight twenty nine somewhere in there. Um I’m just going to set up.

**** – (): 41:20.64

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Came to bloom.

**** – (): 41:36.65

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): On my own and I’ll do some like pop ups I’m going to get like a bit of Seattle back in me and I’ll I’ll just do stuff. Um, and I think my parents all of them were like what this is why we told you. Don’t go to grad school for art history like what are you going to do with that degree and and I had I had student debt at that point you know it was it was scary but I was like there’s got to be a way to help artists outside of the gallery system and I’ll just do popups because pop ups were starting that it wasn’t there wasn’t really a word for it yet.

They were like temporary exhibits. Um and I just like luck right? I had a client in Seattle who who asked me to help them a bit on some stuff so that was a gallery that was like hey write our press releases and help us with client outreach and and I was like from New York and they were like yeah.

**** – (): 42:29.45

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Here.

**** – (): 42:31.59

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): So I did that with them and I went to a few fairs with them and then I met um a guy called Jimmy Moffett who is amazing and he ran art and commerce which um, that was he set that up in the in the 70 s seventy s eighty s and that he’s an agency for. For fashion photographers and he represented everyone from like Stephen Maizell to Annie Lieov Itz and he said hey I’ve got this artist I’m in London called Nick Knight and I was like I know Nick Knight he did the massive attack album cover and the b york album cover Jimmy was like okay yep, he did. Great.

**** – (): 43:03.64

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Click in.

**** – (): 43:10.21

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, he nick is is trying to ah run a gallery alongside his studio and maybe you could go and sort that out. So I agreed to like a six month contract they obviously also knew I had a british passport so they were like perfect. Go.

**** – (): 43:20.23

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): See.

**** – (): 43:28.74

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Go do that? Ah so I came for six month at the time I was also dating my now husband um, and so I was like perfect I’ll I’ll like figure out the boy because there’s no way I’m moving just for the boy and I’ve got a six month retainer and and then I was like huh.

**** – (): 43:29.18

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Complic 6 Yeah.

**** – (): 43:33.88

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 43:40.35

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 43:47.50

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Actually have a business now and so that’s that’s honestly there was no plan and that’s how it’s happened right? So then I started helping artists so I was embedded in Nick Studio and I had a few other artists that I was like.

**** – (): 43:59.24

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Can you can you elaborate? how? Um how does that really can you give us a behind the scenes and how you do it in real life. How do you really like what kind of artists are you helping? Um, how are you helping I know you say you have Frank Partnerships you’re helping artists and collectors. Can we speak so that really people from all anyone who’s a big artist who is a made career top of the career. Anybody like if they want to understand if they are the right fate. How can they make the most of it. Ah, just for everybody’s knowledge.

**** – (): 44:31.00

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Yeah, ah so with artists I I I mean hilarious given I’ve just said I don’t do it I don’t have a plan or I didn’t have a plan I now have a plan I’m I make them sit down and tell me what they what they want like where do they want to get to. And um, how do they like? What’s the goal with the work. So Do you want to be in a museum. Do you want to have a book. Do you want to? What do you want to do and um.

**** – (): 45:04.10

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And and then I work backwards. So if an artist says to me I want I want a retrospective in the Dna I say okay, it’s pretty ambitious. That’s going to take 10 years probably unless you’re super established and even in 10 years it might not happen, but let’s let’s like.

**** – (): 45:08.77

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Honey.

**** – (): 45:14.73

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, no.

**** – (): 45:23.56

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Lot it. How would we get there. How what do we need to do um and and then I like action those things. So if if it’s um I mean I can give you. It’s probably better if I give you an actual real world.

**** – (): 45:24.15

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Get that? Yeah yeah.

**** – (): 45:38.40

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah I’d also tell me what kind of artist specifically because um I think in today’s age artists are really looking I think we’ve become smarter I think artists have really become smarter a lot of artists have come to the point that they’ve understood that.

**** – (): 45:41.49

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Example so Bin De Bart

**** – (): 45:57.16

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Their role as artists are just not making work but also being strategic Also finding good collaboration partnerships with people who really can help them because we cannot do all by ourselves. So Let’s say what is an ideal kind of artist that you’d work with with someone who. If they wanted to check if they fit the bill.

**** – (): 46:17.74

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, I mean I don’t yes any any level right? I’m any level artist. Ah, just someone who’s who’s willing to.

**** – (): 46:18.80

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Is it someone who could be in the beginning of the career or with them. Okay, okay.

**** – (): 46:34.15

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 46:34.32

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Do the work right? There is no, there is no formula here. There is no right answer. It’s the art worlds The wild Wild West right? It’s um, it’s unregulated. Ah we we.

**** – (): 46:47.30

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, yeah, yeah, it’s the creative world I mean you create what you want? Yeah yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 46:52.45

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): We have we. It’s the creative world exactly and you and you have to be willing to like take risks and you have to be willing for it to not work for a while you have to be willing for um it to yeah to be really successful at some Point. So I think Flexibility. Doesn’t matter where you are what stage in your career I What I’m most interested is like projects. So If you’ve got an amazing project that I can see a beginning middle and end I’m excited to work with you and that’s I was gonna give you I’m gonna actually reach a prop.

**** – (): 47:18.66

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 47:27.75

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, please.

**** – (): 47:29.43

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Even though I didn’t mean for it to be no, but it’s there so like bindi. Um, she is an incredible young artist who during lockdown she sent me a pdf I had worked with her before I had I had curated her into a show in 2000 191818 maybe um, and.

**** – (): 47:37.97

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 47:49.12

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): During lockdown she sent me pdf with a selection of these works in it and it was like a lifeline you know it was one of those days where like the planes had stopped flying overhead. The kids were driving me crazy I was trying to homeschool and I was like the right though.

**** – (): 48:02.68

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh my goodness.

**** – (): 48:06.97

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): The world is over what are we doing and this this pdf lens and her her whole thing was was using this body of work to try and understand covered so she was taking words from Headlines or tweets now X Um, and.

**** – (): 48:17.59

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 48:26.95

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And she was then combining them with found images from archives that she had bought and then she was placing these beautiful um little interrogations or embroidery over the images that made your eye fall around anyway. I was like who everything’s going to be ok bindi. Let’s do. Ah, Zoom or a live Instagram live or something. Let’s just talk about this work and let’s just and she she was like okay, great Let’s do that so we did that then we started selling a few pieces and like permanent collections got excited about it too. It just struck a chord right? and so it was this.

**** – (): 49:01.98

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 49:05.93

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Beautiful thing and from there right? We’ve sold work. We’ve shown work. We’ve um I mean we’ve done talks together and then this this book happens so perimeter additions which I don’t know how well you can see that but it’s like a little brick right? it like hits you over the head. Um.

**** – (): 49:17.14

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Book came mine. Oh ah I can see it. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow.

**** – (): 49:25.28

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Perimeter editions who are this fantastic team in Australia husband and wife they got in touch and said we love the series could it be a book and the series went on and on and on so it doesn’t just chart covered it was for like.

**** – (): 49:35.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Move off? yeah.

**** – (): 49:41.13

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): The two years that we were properly dealing with covered which it was 2 years but so this thing charts covered it charts George Floyd being murdered it charts black lives matter rising up it charts all of our politicians making a a mess it it like.

**** – (): 49:42.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 49:50.23

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh wow.

**** – (): 50:00.79

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): It’s this portrait of a moment and you go through it and it doesn’t matter I mean okay I just opened a page three hundred and forty two and the text in the book is isolated from the artwork in the artwork. The text is underneath and it’s like this page is. We are more than just bodies. Okay, the next one is turn to corner and the escape route is in sight. Ah, and then oh man, weaponized stillness is an undervalued superpower like.

**** – (): 50:20.42

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah. Oh Wow! yes.

**** – (): 50:33.71

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow.

**** – (): 50:37.68

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): This this thing it’s still it’s still has all the gravity that it had at the right? um and it’s just remarkable and like those are the images that she chose to go with it but but that is a project that like perfect, perfect.

**** – (): 50:41.26

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): When you first saw is for the first time. Yeah.

**** – (): 50:54.31

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, it called for you.

**** – (): 50:57.31

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And and we did it. We yeah and we got it out in the world. So um, it can’t reach the table tables too far away. Ah yeah, so so that’s a that’s a like classic. That’s how I work with with artists. It’s it’s again is.

**** – (): 51:12.84

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Amazing. It’s so exciting. Yes, yeah I Think what’s um, what’s so exciting is like.

**** – (): 51:15.43

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Well thank you, It’s fun. It’s fun. Hard hard a bit fun.

**** – (): 51:26.73

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Sometimes Ah, when you’re having fun even if it’s hard. Um, you get through it. That’s I think that’s what is I think that’s the cherry on the cake when you do something that you love Otherwise it’s just hard.

**** – (): 51:34.45

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 51:42.16

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, well I think Also Ray Otherwise it’s just hard. But I think that’s also something to do with when you believe in something you know I but I believe in Bindi I believe in that work.

**** – (): 51:51.57

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Now. Yeah.

**** – (): 51:58.51

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And so and so it doesn’t like it doesn’t matter how much time how many times we’re told now and we you know there have there have been some moments where like god am I you know we haven’t sold anything for three weeks or or three months

**** – (): 52:09.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, yeah.

**** – (): 52:15.24

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 52:18.18

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): You know are we okay is this ok um, and then all of a sudden you’re like oh there are 12 editions that are almost sold out. How did that happen? Um, so but I think when you believe in it it it means you you don’t give up.

**** – (): 52:24.95

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Now. Yeah, yeah I agree with that. You just keep going. You just figure it Out. You keep figuring it out until you figure it out.

**** – (): 52:40.22

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Yeah, a friend of mine made the analogy the other day. Um about this new business or this new arm of my business that um, we’re starting and and he was saying he’s like it’s a bit like. Um, it’s a bit like ah a um video game. So you you just have to you just have to stay alive and make it to the next level and by staying Alive. You can fail right? because in a video game and and just imagine he’s like just imagine you have unlimited lives.

**** – (): 53:11.92

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You lies.

**** – (): 53:16.56

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): But you can try and make the jump and you fall down the hole and you can try and make the jump and you fall on the whole you just got to make it to the next level like just make it to the next level and it’s a weird analogy one because I don’t really play video games. The kids do on occasion. Um, but like but I loved that I’d love to like? no no, no, you can’t fool down the hole and fail and then you can get back up.

**** – (): 53:20.76

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 53:31.70

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah, no I think it’s really nice. Yes, and it’s I think I think as creative people. We also find a lot of inspiration from these analogities because it’s it does.

**** – (): 53:34.76

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And can try it again. It just it felt like a lovely analogy.

**** – (): 53:50.46

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Like it’s great to be practical, but sometimes I think like these ideas really give us hope. Ah I think we’ve all hit the ground. We’ve hit bottom specifically in the last three years I’m sure we’ve all had some really terrible things to face. Be it a financial loss of loved ones or something and.

I think in those days specifically in my own experience I feel like when you really look at these things and you figure out. Okay, 1 more time I think I keep telling myself whenever I hit the crown I’m like I did it before 1 more time and there’s like you know you keep telling yourself another time just one more life like you know while playing the video game. We’re like.

**** – (): 54:25.25

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, yeah.

**** – (): 54:28.15

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Just one more life and you just keep getting that. Okay, there’s another thing I wanted to talk to you about something that I deeply am very very passionate about and I know you’ve spoken a lot about which is specifically of course women in the art world. Um, but also generally women.

**** – (): 54:44.30

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): A.

**** – (): 54:47.48

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I think for me, um, women came first art world came second I was like I told you I grew up in a white patriarchal set up. Um I just even it wasn’t like a traditional patriarchy I think it is so deeply ingrained into our system. In our subconscious ah in our cultures in our gender roles that I absolutely growing up always always retaliated and hated the way women were being treated specifically around me. Um, how our identities even today as modern women I think that is one of the biggest themes for me as a woman. As an artist like you know how my work is on modern marani and marani is like a keyword for a queen you know and I keep saying this why you know so when in India so if a woman is like you know if there’s somebody. Ah, we have a niece so I don’t have children I’m not married but I stay with my family and my brother has a boy and a son. And I’m very close to my niece and I keep telling her like you know if if she’s doing oh don’t be a mahaani or don’t be this and that’s how we also grew up like if a woman is expecting too much being too much being good or bad like you know how we’re always in put in a spot and um.

**** – (): 56:00.46

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 56:02.76

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Women in the art world is we all know. Can you talk about how how has this does this have ah any personal route to it your own experience as a woman and how is it extending into your professional life.

**** – (): 56:18.82

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I think I’ve said the sentence about 20 times this podcast but again like you um and we really are very similar. This is something I I since since I recognized that I was a ah girl I was like that’s not fair.

**** – (): 56:33.85

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 56:35.55

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Don’t treat me like that. Um, and and I have rallied against it since I was a teenager really Um, and then and then it was definitely brought out. At university so I studied. Ah, ah this and this poet very little known still called Mina Loy and she was part of that set of um like the James Joyce and Gertrude Stein and she was she was part of those women who were really strong and were fighting for their voices.

Um, but then she she walked into the ocean and she like gave up and it was that like this image of that actually the patriarchy was just too hard for her and all her work at her her most famous collection of of poems is called the lost lunar betakeker which is a ah guide book. Um. And it just felt like her entire life was also rallying against the patriarchy and the way that she as a woman was treated um and it hit hard right? And then I got to to grad school and I I saw this this work.

By an artist that was really tied up in third wave feminism and at that point third wave feminism was was where we were and it was all about like being awful to women again right? You were kind of poking fun at at women who were too complicit. Um, that felt really wrong to me so I’d like.

**** – (): 57:59.39

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 58:04.24

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Picked apart this artwork because the artwork was absolutely doing that and I wrote a paper and I took it to Uc Berkeley and I was out on the like this is not fair. Um, and so it’s yeah, it’s it’s come with me. It’s come with me and and as I’ve gotten older those I guess it feels more important than ever and um, you know I have always worked with women I’ve always worked with women of of color I’ve always worked with.

People of all shapes and sizes ethnicity sexual preferences. This is not a thing that needed to be named and if you look through my career you can you? You can see that rip bear. Um, no and I just I don’t I I don’t.

**** – (): 58:49.63

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, yeah, it’s not something that you yeah.

**** – (): 58:57.12

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Get it I don’t get why still you know yesterday yesterday was um I can remember what it’s called equal Payday where so everyone in the uk ah, who is a woman has now stopped earning from now until the end of the year women aren’t making any money because of the discrepancy because of the discrepancy.

**** – (): 59:10.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow Oh my god.

**** – (): 59:16.65

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Between what women are paid versus what men are paid so that is like we’re a third down or something like that you can look at the statistics but it was yesterday and you think okay and then you go back to in 1985 the guerrilla girls made that piece with the dollar wait the dollar sign they made that poster.

**** – (): 59:23.81

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh.

**** – (): 59:34.51

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And the dollar sign is cut into a third and it says ah women make less than a third what men do and then it says like female artists make and I can’t remember I’m terrible with numbers I can’t remember what the percentage is but it says how much female artists make less than men.

**** – (): 59:46.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Same here. You make got 2028 God almost 4.

**** – (): 59:53.74

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And you’re like that’s 1985 1985 we are in 2023 people like how are we still almost for how are we still having this conversation. Why are we not I get it look and this is controversial.

**** – (): 01:00:06.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 01:00:12.61

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And maybe people will come after me, we’re not equal. We are not equal we are different. So let’s celebrate our differences but we should be remunerated equally. It’s that simple right? If if I am as good at what I do as my male counterpart.

**** – (): 01:00:14.16

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 01:00:31.49

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): No no.

**** – (): 01:00:32.17

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Me the same and if you’re telling me that Georgia O’keeffe is not as good as her male counterpart who I can’t think of you know who who is it. Um, who would her painting male counterpart I can’t think of anyone who would be her painting male counterpart because no one does.

**** – (): 01:00:37.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 01:00:50.16

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): But you know what I mean like 1 of her contempor. You cannot tell me that her work has less value but it does like.

**** – (): 01:00:58.14

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah,. But in fact, you know what? um I feel like honestly I feel like if we are really talking about disparity women should be paid more because I feel like the roadblocks women have men really don’t have it. I Mean they don’t have to bear children and that’s just not..

It’s not that you and I decided it really is what somebody decided um and it’s this could really go south but I really I’m going to say this but I really do feel like you know? Um, so like I was having this conversation with my associate. Editor and all of our teams their mothers they have children. One of them is expecting and I understand completely how difficult it gets some days I feel like and I told her you know what?

I really believe in what I really believe in this because someday I Really want to have a child. And I don’t want to choose a career over a child or a child over a career I Truly believe that I want to do both and that is only possible when a I believe in it and B when you know people around you really make that a woman to really but a man when let’s a man wants to have a family.. They don’t have to decide. Um, let’s say when I was young. Um I moved out from my parents house while I was 18 That’s not as easy and as common um in our culture in the beginning and it’s and there’s so many things I and my brother grew equally like we’re it was the same age.

**** – (): 01:02:30.40

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): We Both had a huge disparity in all parts like and for for my parents. They always did it equally but just growing up Equally I Always I always experienced that you know what is ba minimum and easy for a man versus a bare minimum and easy for a woman. Um. I didn’t grow up learning a lot of skills because I couldn’t really go as a woman I I had curfews times which my my brother never did he was skilled more than me because he really had those access um versus you know, like you know it’s so like I said it’s..

It’s just so cut like even when people are being fair. They can never be fair and I keep on telling this to my my partner who’s fairly like he’s really like really open and you know he does not come and I keep telling when and he keep he keeps saying like you know he’s not like he’s not patriarchal misogynist like and I’m saying. And I keep telling him you know what the most non misogynist men in the world would still be a misogynist because that’s how like even if you like it’s a given..

That’s how you raised had. That’s how a man and a woman. They’re always raised differently and it’s such a. It’s such a deep rooted problem that I really don’t know like we will still have to keep working on it. No matter how good we think we are.

**** – (): 01:03:54.51

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I think first of all, you’re absolutely right on every level I’m I think and this is so complicated and I will do a bad job of saying what I’m trying to say I’m sure i’m. Biological determinism was thrown out in the 80 s right but there’s this amazing french theorist called loose airgure she’s a book called that sex which is not one and it’s a seminal text for for me. It’s a seminal text for for feminism but she just talks about the the fundamental difference between men and women.

**** – (): 01:04:13.82

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 01:04:19.56

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 01:04:30.71

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, does come down to our biology right? So men are singular by virtue of they have a singular phallus and and we are multiple because of of the way that we are gendered um and and.

**** – (): 01:04:37.44

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, multiple.

**** – (): 01:04:49.67

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And here’s the thing and here’s the thing that nobody nobody talks about loudly enough yet and I I can feel it. It’s happening but like as women write we go through puberty um men do that too. So everyone gets a bit knocked around in that. But then once a month

**** – (): 01:05:02.52

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 01:05:08.12

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): We experience this like massive hormonal thing that we have to deal with which we do with grace and we’re amazing right? But then then we come to.

**** – (): 01:05:09.66

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, you yeah.

**** – (): 01:05:17.12

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And we have to normalize it also in the modern times. Um, it’s It’s even though our bodies are different and there’s I think there’s such a paradox in this as well. But we’re saying like oh you have to be this smart independent girl. Oh you just hadede. It’s get up and you know go there and whatever. And on the contrary.. There’s also like this huge like your your body’s experiencing something and we all have different ways of dealing with it and your body may require downtime or not I mean it’s it’s It’s never a great black or white. It’s so great.

**** – (): 01:05:46.95

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, and I you know I’ve now started to understand so well how my body works and this is I’m 44 years old. Seriously it took me this long. It’s insane. But but that I you know I I mark my calendar I know.

**** – (): 01:05:54.81

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, okay.

**** – (): 01:06:06.52

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): The seven days before I’m going to get my period do not like do not let self-doubt guide you so I will not make big business decisions if I don’t have to because because I get in those periods I get like I get anxious I doubt myself.

**** – (): 01:06:16.65

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh.

**** – (): 01:06:23.88

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 01:06:26.10

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And that’s just hormones That’s all it is is hormones. But so I have to like cossip myself a little bit and say okay look all the noises in your head. They’re legit listen to them. But maybe don’t act on them right now like just take a second so we have that to deal with all the time then you come to childbearing years.

**** – (): 01:06:34.70

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 01:06:45.39

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And the seismic shift that goes on inside your brain and your body when you have these humans. It’s our society underestimates. How big that is. It’s just enormous and so this fight between between work and kids and who you are as a person like that all happens.

**** – (): 01:06:52.67

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 01:07:04.10

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): And that’s monumental and then guess what if you’re me, you have your kids you get them to a stage where you know minor 10 and six and we’re like we’re cruising. But I’m going to hit menopause any second and that’s this seismic thing right? I mean not any seconds but in the next.

**** – (): 01:07:11.38

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay, yeah, of yes yeah.

**** – (): 01:07:23.70

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Decade. It’s it’s coming for me. It’s probably already happening. Um and at the same time. My kids are going to be in the the middle of of their own puberty. So like meanwhile my husband who is amazing and is completely. Um.

**** – (): 01:07:29.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): It is yeah god.

**** – (): 01:07:41.80

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): You know he is a feminist through and through and through and he supports me and backs me and I couldn’t do any of this without him. He’s like we had kids I’m just gonna go back to work right? right? Like what and I start talking to him about Menopause and he’s like is that really a thing is that gonna happen I’m like dude.

**** – (): 01:07:58.22

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 01:08:00.16

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Could completely lose my mind. It could be years where I am just a different person. We’re just going to have to ride this out and he’s like seriously like no no, no seriously seriously.

**** – (): 01:08:06.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): God But I saw my mom deal with it and I I saw her I mean really, there’s so many things that a woman does in ah in a lifetime that I feel like is so extraordinarily normalized that I mean sometimes it’s just like. How like how like I keep on telling this to my even my brother we grew up same and I love this code like even though if you’re born to the same parents at the same exact time you’ll never have the same experience and.

Me and my brother we were we literally were you up together. Um, and and I I always fail to understand that How did he not see those sites that I saw as a woman as a girl growing up and what it did to like you know how our. My mom probably experienced it and how I empathize with her and how that has given me my life’s purpose versus for him. You truly didn’t come to knowing after like really he like before him. Also even having a child or like so it’s it’s so so so different and it’s like..

It’s like I think sometimes men can never truly understand and I also say this to my partner like you know you can never understand because you will never understand what it takes to be a woman and it’s not I’m saying that this is better or that than’m just saying there’s so different experiences that I would truly never understand what it means to be a a man I would.

**** – (): 01:09:38.12

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 01:09:38.59

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Know what it feels and a lot of time people ask us why? like like you said if I see the trajectory of my life. Everything has always been so women focused. Um my mom passing away was like a hit on the nerve and it really shifted.

**** – (): 01:09:55.62

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 01:09:56.81

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): A lot more than it truly can it. It really made my purpose even more stronger and people ask why art Shaha is only a women’s community. Why my work is so much like is is always about women. Why I’m always speaking about that and I say I don’t know anything better. This is one thing I know through and through I know I. I feel it or probably I’m being and I do feel like artists feel things a lot more deeply than let’s say other people creative people maybe um and I feel like this is one thing I know through and through I can speak from my heart I can share I feel so in my bones.

**** – (): 01:10:31.31

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Then.

**** – (): 01:10:33.64

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Don’t know there’s any I can if you ask me what it takes to be a lawyer and a man I don’t know I don’t have a clue but if you ask me what it means to be a woman I have a lot of opinions and are there really strong ones and I will fight for it.

**** – (): 01:10:45.81

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um I Thank God for that is that it it is you know it is up to us to change the game and you know you’re doing it for the art world that you want to see but you’re also doing it for cultured.

**** – (): 01:10:49.35

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You know.

**** – (): 01:10:55.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, now. Yeah, you’re doing the video. Yeah yeah.

**** – (): 01:11:03.80

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): But but you’re doing it for a culture you want to see right and I’m I’m raising these 2 little men right? They’re men they will be men and um and and so I think in a in a.

**** – (): 01:11:10.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh they are yeah I think you have a greater responsibility I Always yeah yes, yes.

**** – (): 01:11:21.48

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): But that’s what I mean is that like right I feel more responsible Now that’s like that’s like don’t you dare you boys don’t you dare put me or any other woman in some sort of ghetto that I’m not allowed to use that word or silo or do not dismiss us. You cannot.

**** – (): 01:11:27.62

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah. Yeah.

**** – (): 01:11:38.47

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah woman we are man. Yeah I love that I love that I keep saying the same to my sister. She also has to like a son and I keep telling her.

**** – (): 01:11:41.35

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Dismiss us you have to accept like all the parts of what it is to be a woman because we have accepted all the parts of what it is for you to be a man and and we let you do that. So it’s time it.

**** – (): 01:11:57.89

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And it’s it’s It’s so strange like she keeps saying while raising a boy she tells these experiences like you know oh he’s doing this and I’m like it’s so strange for like for me to even hear like how men grow up boys have so many different things to deal while growing up like as boy pure body understanding the bodies and all of that.

Like you have some like I think Mothers of boys Duty have such an important role to play on what the next generation and the place for women will look like because I feel like the biggest bottleneck from the history has been women has they never communicated enough at least that’s what I Believe. Husbands never knew enough Fathers never knew enough. Brothers never knew enough sons never knew. Yeah, those experiences were never shared enough for them to even understand and I think if we change that narrative so much I mean you all of those people are raising boys could bring so much of difference.

**** – (): 01:12:53.79

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, you’re so right I mean we have all of our you know our our periods we had in secret our first kisses we had in secret ah anything that had to do with our bodies. It was secret whereas you know my brother was running around naked. My boys.

**** – (): 01:12:58.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, secret. Yes yeah.

**** – (): 01:13:10.23

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): They run around naked all the time and it’s fine. Ah, and it’s like I never I never had that I never had that. Um, so yeah, so I’m out here banging the drum just like you are um and and you know I don’t know.

**** – (): 01:13:15.51

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah now.

**** – (): 01:13:29.74

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I Don’t we have a way to go but but conversations like this move the marker.

**** – (): 01:13:31.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, um, so it was a nice turkey conversation I’m sure it it turned out longer than we I you know ever we expected but it was so nice. It was. It didn’t turn out really I didn’t expect I thought it would be a more art centered. But I think.

**** – (): 01:13:41.87

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 01:13:48.35

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Yeah I mean honestly, it’s seldom I sometimes get on these and I’m like answering the question then waiting for the next question this this felt like a true conversation. So I’m thank you for that. What a like privilege. Really.

**** – (): 01:13:48.38

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Really hit it off.

**** – (): 01:14:01.23

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Same here same here and I’m so I’m so grateful that you did open up I think that’s that’s always that’s always a pleasure and I’m sure you understand that because it’s like you have 1 of the most like it’s like time time quickly passes away and you really feel like you’ve taken away more than you’ve given I really did feel that way.

**** – (): 01:14:18.87

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Um, yeah.

**** – (): 01:14:19.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): So I’m taking a lot of it from this country which um I am hopeful This isn’t ah it’s a first but it’s not our last.

**** – (): 01:14:26.66

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): I’d like I mean hey anytime um, and when I get seen up and running I might have to get you over on on our channel. So we’re not doing it but not doing a podcast. Um, but there’s other things. So so I might have to drag you drag you in.

**** – (): 01:14:27.60

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 01:14:33.34

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely oh I’m seeing all your I’m seeing all your video recording I’m very excited what it turns out and I always love how like I love how create I just I feel women are so creative and I think. Way in energy energy energy. We do things with is like it’s always so imp empowering. So I’m really really cheering for you. But here wait one second before I let you go anyone who’s listening 1 piece of advice. You’ll give us okay, specifically for women artists. That’s who we are.

**** – (): 01:14:56.95

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Thank you.

**** – (): 01:15:10.26

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, listening most mostly but beyond that as well. If you’d like and where can people find you support you? How can they learn more from you and anyone who’s interested. Where do you want to direct them? yes.

**** – (): 01:15:24.20

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): 1 piece of advice. Do not ignore the little voice. The little tiny voice inside you and I think going back to what we were saying as women we have quieted ourselves. Um. And so those voices are small but they are actually supposed to be our big voices. Ah and and the thing that has always always made me tick. It was a little voice at first that I was like oh art I like art I think I like art and and then I was like no no I’d be sensible. Don’t be sensible.

**** – (): 01:15:42.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Not upline.

**** – (): 01:15:58.79

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Listen to the little voice because that voice is right and that is your your your superpower. The thing that scares you it is it is going to be the thing that makes you so listen to that the teeny voice. Um and where are you asked me where where do you find me so I’m on Instagram.

**** – (): 01:16:00.58

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 01:16:14.28

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 01:16:18.61

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Even though I said I’m not really a traditional curator. My hashtag is carriecot curates. Um, and then I have a website Carrie Scott I I don’t use Twitter all that much I’m trying to use Tiktok more? Um, but I’m not very hard to find so and and you know I’m very open to to conversations.

**** – (): 01:16:19.82

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 01:16:37.70

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Like these um with anyone that wants to have it So drop me a line.

**** – (): 01:16:39.00

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, perfect I will make sure that everything gets you’ve mentioned the links the artist. Um and all your touchpoints will make sure that that’s mentioned in the show notes there will be more work from you. Ah, your projects and more details from this episode in the show notes. So Everyone who joined us make sure you do visit the website and you check out Carriey s work. Make sure you if you did like this and what part you did really resonate I think one but takeaway from this conversation would be how we can keep the conversation going because.

I Think that’s what really matters. Um, if you have an experience that you’d like to share make sure you do share send us a message share a story drop a line tag us and you know if you if something did resonate let us know but let’s keep the conversation going I think that’s that’s what. What really matters to all of us. Yeah, Thank you? Everyone who joined us. Thank you. Thank you.

**** – (): 01:17:32.85

**** – (): Carrie

**** – (): Thank you Thank Thank Thank you.


About The Guest(s):
Carrie is a multi-hyphenated creative professional with a background in art history and a passion for bringing art to life. She has worked in various roles in the art world, including running galleries, curating exhibitions, and supporting artists. Carrie is known for her ability to connect with artists and create meaningful experiences for art enthusiasts.

Summary:
Carrie shares her journey as a multi-hyphenated creative professional and the challenges she faced in the art world. She discusses the importance of embracing multiple roles and finding one’s true passion. Carrie also talks about her love for art and her desire to bring it to life for others. She emphasizes the need for open conversations and discussions about art, encouraging people to engage with it and ask questions. The conversation also touches on the topic of women in the art world and the need for equality and recognition.

Key Takeaways:

  • Embrace multiple roles and don’t limit yourself to one title or profession.
  • Find your true passion and pursue it, even if it means taking unconventional paths.
  • Engage in open conversations and discussions about art to deepen your understanding and appreciation.
  • Don’t be afraid to ask questions and seek answers when encountering art that you don’t fully understand.
  • Women in the art world face unique challenges and it’s important to support and uplift their voices.

Quotes:

  • “I love the idea of doing everything, not just doing one thing.”
  • “Art is not the easy choice. Artists put themselves on the line to be vulnerable and criticized.”
  • “Engage in open conversations and ask questions when encountering art that you don’t fully understand.”
  • “Do not ignore the little voice inside you. It is your superpower.”
  • “The thing that scares you is going to be the thing that makes you, so listen to that tiny voice.”

Charuka Arora is the founder of the Arts to Hearts Project and Host of the Arts to Hearts Podcast. She is also an acclaimed Indian artist known for her contemporary embellished paintings. Her unique blend of gouache, collage, embroidery, painting, and drawing explores the intersection of art, culture, heritage, and womanhood. Through her work, she tells stories of female strength and encapsulates them in pieces that can be treasured for generations.

 Arts to Hearts Project Gallery + Studio

Charuka’s work draws inspiration from Hindu mythology, recognizing women as vessels of Shakti, the cosmic energy. She beautifully portrays powerful goddesses like Durga Maa riding a tiger or lion, symbolizing their unlimited power to protect virtue and combat evil.

Through her art, Charuka invites us into the world of women, showcasing their beauty, strength, and resilience. Her creations not only exhibit exceptional talent but also serve as an inspiration and a symbol of hope for those challenging societal norms.

About Arts to Hearts Project Gallery + Studio

Arts to Hearts Podcast is a show delving into the lives and passions of renowned artists. From running creative businesses and studio art practices to cultivating a successful mindset, Charuka Arora engages in heartfelt conversations with her guests. Experience your personal happy hour with your favorite artists, right in your studio.

Through candid discussions, Charuka and her guests reveal the joys and challenges of a vibrant creative life, both within and beyond our studios. Get ready to be inspired and uplifted as you tune in.

Carrie Scott

In 2008, Carrie Scott opened Carrie Scott & Partners, a business that is at once an art consultancy, gallery, and curatorial endeavor.  Carrie is an American/English curator, art historian, TV presenter and art writer living in London. Over the past 16 years she has worked with numerous galleries, businesses, collectors and artists worldwide.

While at the University of Washington, Seattle doing a Master’s in Art History, Scott was noted curator of the Hedreen Gallery at Seattle University’s Lee Center, and Director of the James Harris Gallery also in Seattle, Washington. While working with James Harris she curated the first solo show of Rashid Johnson’s work outside of Chicago. From there she went on to be Director of Nicole Klagsbrun gallery in New York.

In 2009, when the financial world was in total chaos, Scott launched her own business, at once an art consultancy, gallery and curatorial endeavour that could exist beyond the walls of the traditional gallery and therefore not be beholden to huge overheads and instead look after artists and collectors more unswervingly.

Over the past 11 years, Carrie Scott & Partners has had the privilege of working closely with numerous artists, including Nick KnightJohn PawsonWalter & ZonielMarina ShacolaThe Harold Feinstein Estate, and Federico Pestilli – to help them establish strong and sustained markets.  The business participates in many aspects of this process, from selecting pieces in their archive, assisting and overseeing artwork production, and putting together a considered sales strategy that sees placement of the work in museum and exhibition settings.
  
In 2018, Scott curated the largest independent photography show for the Store x, 180 Strand, A Shade of Pale, exhibiting 470 photographs and most remarkably featuring 320 images from John Pawson’s series Spectrum suspended in space.

Scott has published numerous articles and essays on artists, and appeared as a presenter on  The Art Show, where she interviewed artists in their studios. In 2020, Scott teamed up with David Hill a curator and gallerist in London to present Harold Feinstein’s work, as well as a groundbreaking exhibition on West African Portraiture. In 2021, they will debut new work by Ben Hassett and Rachidi Bissiriou with two solo shows.

For Carrie Scott, it is difficult to define herself in a single creative role. Is she a writer? Or a curator? Or a gallerist? Or an art historian? Or does she do art broadcasting? Carrie wears many hats, and she does not like to put herself in a box. With a background in art history, entrepreneurship, and curation, she has carved out a unique space for herself in the art world. However, for Carrie, this all feels natural as she has always been drawn to multiple things. For Carrie, at the end of the day, what’s important is that she gets people to talk about art and start conversations.

I think for me, it’s always been about bringing art to life.

Carrie Scott – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e44

Carrie calls herself part-British and part-American, and perhaps it is the influence of her multi-cultured background that she has always has been drawn to not one, but multiple things.

Creating an enterprise without a plan

When Carrie moved to New York, she started as a writer, as it was something that she had dreamed of as a child. However, even as she worked in the corporate world, she did not fully feel satisfied, and would often go and spend time in art galleries. Finally, recognizing her passion, she decided to enroll in University of Washington where she got the much needed exposure to the art world. She started working with James Harris and credits him for his support and mentorship at the time.

Once Carrie was back in New York, she crossed paths with Rashid Johnson and collaborated with him on a show. While Carrie already had one foot in art world, it wasn’t until 2009 when she actually kickstarted her career. This was the time when she got fired from her job, and was going through a tough phase financially. However, she overcame this temporary roadblock, and was able to launch her own business, all without any prior planning. Carrie’s experience can also be taken as a great lesson that we must always be open towards embracing change and accepting the path on which life is leading us.  

Carrie Scott on being an artist

Being an artist is not something that many people perceive it to be, and that is what Carrie also points out. For most of the people, being an artist can mean sitting at a cozy spot and painting, when that’s not all there is to art.

Art is not the easy choice, and making art is hard.

Carrie Scott – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e44

Being an artist means to create, to be constantly in a state where all you can think about is how to proceed forward as an artist. Whether it’s working during the day or getting ready for bed at night, an artist’s mind never sleeps, and same is the case with Carrie. While she realizes how lucky she is to be able to do something she loves for a living, it also means that she is in a constant state of generating new ideas. Her life is her work, and her work is her life.

Artists, they put they put themselves on the line to be criticized, to be vulnerable.

Carrie Scott – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e44

For artists, it’s not easy that their talent or prestige is judged by the gallery ‘name’ that represents them, or by their work that has been published so far. Instead of looking at artists’ worth through these things, we as a community need to look at an artist’s work and passion.

Helping other artists realize their goals

For Carrie, there is no set criteria of who she thinks is in need of her help. Any artist can count on her, whether s/he is an amateur or not. All an artist needs, she says, is flexibility and the willingness to take risks. For starters, she asks her clients what they want to achieve, what their goal is, and how they plan to get to it. Do those artists want to be in a gallery or do they want to have a book? As long as these artists approach Carrie with a plan that makes sense, Carrie is more than happy to guide them on their creative journey towards achieving that goal.

Women in arts

As the conversation drifts towards women and their roles, Carrie talks about how after all these years, women still have to fight for equal pay. This is true for all women, especially women in arts who have to work ten times harder to be seen. Men and women need to celebrate their differences, but women should be remunerated equally according to their skills and achievements. Women can be as good at doing something as a man, but she still has to fight for equal pay in today’s age.

When it comes to the female body, a lot of biological factors have effect on the quality of our life. From our raging hormones to having our bodies go through permanent change through child bearing, women are expected to have it all together despite everything. Because of the gender roles, it is also the woman who ends up choosing between her family and her career, a difficult decision men don’t need to make.

It falls down on us now, the women of today, to raise the future generation in way that these boys are more empathetic and more understanding towards the female struggle inside and outside her house. Carrie’s one advice to all women, and especially female artists is, is to listen to their inner voice, and treat it as their superpower instead of ignoring it.

Do not ignore the little voice, the little tiny voice inside you.

Carrie Scott – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e44

Even though Carrie does not consider herself as a traditional curator, she uses the hashtag #carriescottcurates, so you can always see what she’s up to. If you want to know more about Carrie and her work, you can check out her website and her Instagram, as she is always open to have insightful conversations.

To read up more about Arts to Hearts Podcast and its episodes, click here.


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