S2E105.

Welcome to the Arts to Hearts Podcast, a showfor artists, creators, creative entrepreneurs to have hard conversationsabout living a creative life and a career.

As you go into this show here, yourfavorite creators talk about money, mindset, business, creativity,and everything else that goes behind into makinga life that we all adore.As an artist artist, you’re the messy andthe wonderful side of being the creative.I am your host, Charaka Rora, an artist,creator, and founder of Arts Two Hearts Project.Thank you for joining me here.Let’s jump right in.

Hey, you guys.Welcome back to the Arts to Hearts podcast.And I have a very special guest with me today.And also, I’m a little nervous.Also, this is the first.It feels like a beginning of I think I felt likethis when I started out so hard, or I started thepodcast because I didn’t know what I was doing.I didn’t know where it would go.But two years down the line here, we aretrying to take a new shift, new face.

So we’re doing like a first timepodcast, which is in person today.This is not only like a virtual, butI have someone right next to me. Yes.And this is surviv. I’m real.I’m not CGI.And I am Survey. Thanks for having me. Sharaka.Thank you so much.Thank you so much for coming.And for everyone who’s listening to this can nowalso view this episode on YouTube, on our website.So I think this will be a very good experience forall of us,

and I’m sure I look forward to this.And what better than someone who’s already done this?And I was like, oh my God, I was eventalking to Avila, and I was like, I don’t wantto make it too confusing because someone who’s already beendoing it, it looks like, why is it so messy?Or something like that. Not at all.I think the fun isn’t the messy.I do agree with that.But I think it’s hard to apply to yourself.It’s easier when you’re doing it, I would say.It’s okay.We’re just having to chat.I just honestly feel like when you lookback at all of this, I think youwill remember the process more than the destination.

So even if it’s, like, messy or like,it’s all over the place, it’s the processthat will stick with you and the goal.I personally do this because I feel likeif I keep, like, aiming for a goal,once I’ve achieved it, then there’s nothing.Then what do I do with my life now?Are you a perfectionist?Oh, my God. Yes.I hate it.I’m trying to, like, recovering.I was my old self.I would have actually not.I would have rescheduled canceled.And I was like, until Idon’t have everything figured out.Because I was like, it’s either zero orit’s like 100 or, like, zero to ten.I’m so harsh on myself.It’s never in between.You started your podcast quite a few years ago now.It’s been running for three seasons.

Five, actually. Five?Okay, so my bad.Actually not your bad exactly, because the firsttwo seasons were short in my bedroom. Okay.So I think a lot of people just don’t know.But that’s actually the beginning of my podcast where wewere just sitting in my bedroom on a mattress, likereally low budget, but eventually we got a studio andnow it looks all big budget and all.

Yeah, it does.It looks beautiful.How do I match up to the standard?I was like, I’ll do my best.It’s who you are.They already match.Yeah, I do agree with that.And sometimes I think for me, podcasting isthe people, it’s the conversation that’s really likeit’s a lot of work, honestly.Even if you do remote, if you do in personproduction, whatever, I think it’s a lot of work andyou can’t really do it unless you’re really in itfor something more than just the superficial things.That’s correct.And I want to talk about a little bitabout perfectionism and how I’m recovering from it.

There’s some like a quote that I reallysort of repeat to myself, which is, don’tlet perfect come in the way of good.I love that.Which basically means that even if it’s notperfect, at least you’re doing something and startinga project is good enough going.And I feel like as a perfectionist, I struggle withthe start, but I feel like there’s so many sortof thoughts in my head before I even start something.So to cut that sort of roadblock, the ideathat I go for just starting is good enough.Like showing up is like half the battle, whichis what I’m so excited about today because Ishowed up and both of us did.You came one and a half away.It was a long ride video, for sure.It was, but it’s worth the ride.Okay, let’s start with so you’re not only likethere are a lot of first in this episode,this is our first video podcast in person podcast.And we are also first comedians so far.I’ve had a lot of different kinds ofpeople on the podcast, visual artists, people alot of in the visual arts team.And I really wanted to because I’ve also beenworking on writing myself and I wanted to expand.I really wanted this community to be women artists.So we are on a mission to unite women artists.And I feel like I want to includeall kinds of perspectives and all kind ofwomen who are in the creative field.

So we’ve had creative entrepreneurs,we’ve had visual artists.Now we are having musicians, podcasters, we’ve had alot of podcasters and now we have a comedian.You are a writer, you’re a comedian, you’re apodcast so you wear a lot of multiple hats?

I do, but not as many as you do, Charuka.I feel like for people who are just watching this forthe first time, Charuka here is very down to earth.You have no idea how much she is going on.She’s like she’s a painter and she’slike a flawless fashion designer and podcaster.I think this is something that wehave going on even in our community.Like, we have a lot of discussion about.I think it’s also, like, gig economy.

Let’s be honest.We’re basically trying to make our ends meet.Absolutely.It sounds like fancy on paper tobe like, oh, wow, you’re this person.But honestly, you’re trying to make ends meet.And also sometimes as a creative person, you have todepend on money coming out, coming from other people.And there’s also nothing states.There’s no standardization, there’s nostructure that you fall into.

But I think for me, I am a compulsive creator.I am the person who gets a thought or anidea in my head, and then I just can’t giveup on it, and I will just chase it.And also, I’m someone who would go thatfar, and I’m like, okay, I’ve done this. What next?So I’m like a person who’s like, okay, I willkeep doing this, but I need to keep working onsomething new every time I need chasing something. Yeah.I think also creatively, I thinkthere comes a stagnant even.I know this is overwhelming for me, 100%.

It’s overwhelming to be on camera, to do this in personbecause my comfort zone is like, sitting on my desk, havingmy laptop, having my camera, and just doing that.Because for me, it’s the conversation.But I had to really push myself.I’m like, no, I’ll do this, I’llstep up, I’ll change things up.So it’s discomforting, but it’s also challenging asa creative, like, putting up a set together,making sure how the edits come out.It’s like end to end. What?I really have this question for you.

So you started as a comedian?Yeah, I mean started did you think about beinglike, it was never, like a career move.Like, oh my God, now I’m going to become a comedian.Let’s make that my career now.It was always, like, something I did on the side,and then eventually I got a big sort of astage to promote myself and other female comedians.It was a show called Queens of Comedy. Yes.So that was sort of like the launch pad fora lot of the comedians, female comedians in the industry.

But if I look back now, I feel like everybody’ssort of divorced into something apart from stand up comedy.There are people writing screenplays, peoplepodcasting, there’s people doing live shows.So there’s like a mixed batch of, like, youknow, comedians who are like, pure stand up comedians.They don’t do anything.And there’s also people, like mediums who usetheir writing skills on shows and movies.So I think for all of us,it’s never been, like, a career move.Because, honestly, trusting a stand comedian inIndia, it’s hard to sustain yourself withthat amount of earnings that you get.I don’t know if this happens to you, but Ifeel like if I do something for fun and it’salso the source of my income, it takes away yes.Then I’m like, is it fun anymore?

So I feel like I realized over time that Iwas doing stand up comedy, but it wasn’t very fulfilling.I feel like I was just doing it becauseI felt like everybody around me, like all thecontestants were supposed to get back in the sceneand perform and, like, you know, gather eyeballs.And I was doing it only becausethat was what was told to us.Not because I really sort of felt like.This excitement of. Like. Oh.Let me just go and perform today.Because I realized that this is not sustainingme because I moved from Delhi to Bombay.And people who have. Like.A house in Bombay are so lucky and. Like.So blessed.And I felt like I was not on the same playing field.I feel that 100%.So I had to take a step back andsort of realize what I really want to do.And even though I hate, like, Idid give a shot at jobs.I mean, I worked in an advertising agency,multiple agencies, for, like, three and a halfyears of my time in Bombay.But then after I did stand comedy, Iknew that I just wouldn’t be able tofit in the corporate structure again.Yeah, but guess what? I was wrong. Really?I was wrong because I found myself, like,a decent gig at a podcasting firm.I saw that, and it’s called IBM. I love it.I think they do a good job.And they were just starting out when I joined them.So I got a real hang of what’sit like to work under a podcasting machine.How do you go from just two people talking and howdo you upload it and make it a good listening experience?So I think that helps, knowing that insteadof starting your own podcast, that really did.I had already started my podcast, but I didn’t knowthe role behind it and how it all comes together.I was basically just emulating what I heardonline or heard another podcast, but I didn’tknow how I can make it my own.And yeah, I learned a lot in the process, butwhat I was trying to get to is that ifyou’re never too old for going back in the corporate,like, getting a job, I feel like it should.Some people look like as an artist, I think absolutely.People feel like it’s like, a loss.So it’s a step back in the corporate building.But honestly, if it helps you sustainyourself, pay your bills and you canstill follow your passion, go for it.

Absolutely.I don’t know.I mean, I’m really interested in looking andhearing what you have to say when itcomes to how things work as a comedian,because this, of course, is another creative field.But also, I’m sure it would have very differentdynamics when it comes to how it works.Like, especially for visual arts. I know myself.I’ve been a creator, visual artist for past tenyears, and this is the past ten years.I have been like a theater for the past ten years.And I’ve created in a lot of different forms what alsofelt very consistent to me as someone I grew up ina small town, which I’m very proud and happy about, butalso everything comes with a pro and a con.

For me, something was that I didn’t know.Like you said, starting over in a new city,new country, all of this is very difficult.You have no contacts, you have no social structure.You don’t even have support structures to make things possible,which seems like it’s not like comparing two things, butalso, like, if I were to do something like thisin my own city, things would have been way easierwhen you were like somewhere else and also covering rent,paying cost, all of this.But for me, I think one of themajor things was that I felt like thelack of community, also lack of structure.Like, you don’t know what to do next.There isn’t a template, there isn’t a manual forwomen entrepreneurs to do what they want to doand which is why there’s a lot of, like,everybody is trying to hustle and get that dollar.But I feel like you can clearlysee the disparity of women entrepreneurs 100%.And also, I think when I think about it, Ialso face the same discomfort as you do and like,as most women entrepreneurs do, which is we fail tosort of ask for what we want.

That’s a big one.There’s been research done on this, but men are justmore likely to have conversations about a salary increase orgive me a bonus or just getting a vacation.And women are just so scaredto ask for what they deserve.Men will have ridiculous ideas.They’ll be like, I want this much money,and I’ll do it for this much money.For a lot of women entrepreneurs,especially, they’re just starting out.There’s a lot of self doubt, and you don’tknow if you’re even worth this much money.And also, I think it’s conditioning.All the conditioning.I know hair kind.

I read this somewhere which was like and it’sreally like, first it really made me feel better,but then I was like, you know what?This guy is making sense.Because he was like, I don’t remember the name,but he was like there’s a reason why alot of men succeed more than women.And he went on to say that whilemen are growing up they are always likethey’re habituated to putting themselves out there.You ask to go on a date and you get rejected.You ask to do something and their conditioning is sucha way that being rejected is not a big thing,doesn’t hurt them as much and they’ve been doing itsince they were very young versus women, not in allspaces have had the same conditioning.I think a lot of things havechanged today, but not everywhere yet.

Totally.And I feel like even in the non career sort ofzone have you heard of this term called rejection sensitivity?Yes.So this is something I’ve been reading up aboutand more women suffer from this than men.And it’s basically just basically the answer to whyI tear up almost in every conversation because thereis again, stand up has taught me one thing,which is you have to keep trying.Even if you like people don’t laugh at your jokes and thenthe rush of it is to come back with a better joke.So it does make you alittle like thick skin towards protection.But you can’t deny that it doesn’t hurt.It doesn’t hurt like it does.Like a day to day example would be brands approachyou and like multiple brands approach you in a month.But you keep following up and nothing turnsout to be in the right direction.And then you feel like where did you go wrong?When actually it’s just not you.It’s not you because the industry isstarting out and you’re so replaceable.People would rather go for someone cheaperthan get a talent on board.So if you like tell yourself all of these things.But there is a part of me that does hurtwhen I’m like but why did this not work?So rejection obviously makes us suck a little bitand then it takes a while for us tobounce back compared to maybe like a man goingthrough a rejection in his work field.I think it sort of like takes them lessertime to bounce back or maybe they’re even likemen were just like they’re not worried about rejection.That makes as you said earlier,because they’ve been rejected a lot. Yes.And I think for me, I think something that Ihave personally felt and I keep talking to myself likeokay, in the beginning of my career, or even justnot career, I think personal relationships also.I’m a highly sensitive person, I’m anempath and I take things really tomy heart and honestly it’s a superpower.That’s what my partner keeps saying andI’m like, please don’t put it on. Exactly.I mean, I’m saying these wordsbut do I believe in them? I don’t.I’ve read enough stuff about how empathy is what weneed and people who are actually the people who don’thave empathy are the people who don’t know how tolive a fulfilling life in their own words.But, wow, man, it sucks.It’s a heavy like, it’s a baggage that you carry witheven when you feel like it’s not your problem, but yetyou can’t help yourself from making it a problem.And also, I think I go deeper in the league.Even today, I was pulling acard, so I love pulling cards.No, I love oracle cards.I don’t know if you’ve heard of Rebecca Camper.I don’t want you to pull a card for me.I don’t have it right now.So I have it in the home.At home, I’ll send you, like so this is very popularin our community, and that’s what I really love, and Iabsolutely love what I do is because of this.So when I was doing this for the past a lotof years, when you’re figuring things out, you don’t know, andyou think, okay, when you look at people, I think thisis something that I learned in my career.When you look at people, you think like, oh, thisis a fancy studio, or, this will be like, youhave a perception of how things look like, but that’sreally like, it’s not it’s not the whole picture.Also, when I started so I started as a designer, andI was like, okay, this is what I want to be.When I did my own business in fashion, one and a halfyears down the line, I was like, I can’t do this.I want to do something with my hands, andI don’t want to build the business that Ijust become someone who is managing it and lookingafter factories or, like, people or hi.I still want to be a creator at heart,and I want to do something that really creates.So I decided I wanted to be an artist.I had no clue.

So I’d always been painting and creating, but I neverconsidered this something, like you said, as a comedy.These are passive skills that we built when I grew up.Like I said.I have a brother who’s. Like. You know. Of the same age.And it’s like.Boys are athletic. And girls are. Like.Crafty and creative.And I’m trying oh. Yeah.I’m sensitive.And I really am not comfortable with that word.Because I think with the past two years.I felt like I really struggled with my mom’s passing.And I think everything has bought them down.Like, it feels so personal.

Everything is very accentuated, but it kind of becomeslike, a more of a baggage at some pointwhen things like that happen in your life, butotherwise also, I feel like you don’t know howthings are happening and you figure things out.And all these years, I was like, okay,I need to be here to do this.I need to do this or, like, I can only be an artist.This is something that we really talkabout on the podcast in the community.Like, a lot of people who come in the creative field,they come with this perception, okay, if you’re a comedian, youwill make your life everything, like, as a comedian, because Iwill see you on stage, I see you on TV, andI’m thinking, oh, this person does this all her life, allher time, and that’s why she’s successful.But that’s not true because we all know that thereare so many layers to being a creative and thatas a creator, I think it’s a superpower.Like, why would you restrict yourself, of course, unless youreally feel called to, you want to do this, andthen you create if you don’t see creating multiple ways.My question is, how have you like, I know when Istarted broadcasting, or even before that, I always had this.Am I deviating?Am I cheating on my passion?Or am I doing this?Only of course I came.I made sense of things, and I realized but didyou have that moment at any point where you feltlike, I feel like when I started broadcasting, it wasalmost like the end of the road for me.I had nothing going on for me.Or like, I remember this clearly.I just got out of a job, and I wanted ajob in Bombay, but, like, I hadn’t gotten it yet.So I was doing the resume building, and I was doing theinterviews, and again, it just felt like it was such a hugetime between, like, me getting a job and me starting that Ifelt like I had nothing going on for me.And, like, a friend sort of, like, came upto me one time, and we were discussing whatnew videos we could make, and this sort ofrandomly came up, like, oh, you know what?I would love a service that wouldoverthink your problems for you because I’mso tired of overthinking my own problems.And then I thought, why not make a podcast out of it?Because overthinking is a group sport.I have a friend over, and wecan talk about other people’s problems.So you can forget your own problems in away, and other people’s problems are also overflowed.So it was kind of like a public service.Yeah, I saw that in one of the interviews.When I started podcasting, it didn’tfeel like I was deviating.I mean, it definitely felt like something thatwould require me to be more creative andgenerally just like, my mind space.I was really excited about it.I feel like it’s the people I surrounded myself withat that point where none of it felt like, oh,now I’m doing a new thing, so I’m nervous.It was more like nerves, but of excitement.Like, you know what? I’m going to do something.And it’s going to be out in a couple of days,and I’ll be involved in the process of editing it andsitting down to write questions, make a little poster.So I was all hands on deck.I think the process of it was so engaging that I neverfelt like I’m deviating from what I was supposed to do.In fact, it felt like I finally had control.I finally am doing whatever youfound your purpose on that.But also, I think maybe do you thinkwith visual arts, there’s, like, specially fine art?So when I say this a lot of times onthe podcast yeah, because as a fine art is like,I was a designer, I’m trained a designer, but thenI moved into the fine arts, which is like somethingI wasn’t trained or academically into.And when I shifted here, I always say this,always, I felt like I moved 100 years backin time because this industry is very niche.Things are being done in a certain way,and it’s also not very tech driven.Why do you feel that you moved backeven though you build so many skills? Yeah, absolutely.No, I think what I’m trying to say is that shiftinginto a new industry, because as a designer, I think Ifelt I was being tapped into something I necessarily don’t.I love being a designer.I still hone that skill, practice it every day.But also, I always don’t want to create becauseI want to solve a problem or work ona project or build an identity or I justwant to create just because I want to create.That makes sense.And that’s when I decided Iwanted to be, like, an artist.And then I came onto the idea I want to be a theater.This is my final arrival.Like, this is who I am.I’m not going to tag myself into mediums, andI’m just going to do what my heart desires.Because for me, podcasting or being an artist orbeing a designer or running a business outlet exactly.I feel like it doesn’t feel like deviating tome as long as I still sort of havean outlet for the words and my thoughts.Because the biggest reason why I left my job was thatI was in advertising, and I would write a particular scriptfor an ad, and then he would present it to theclient, and the client would be like, great job, but let’shave Randy Singh dancing on his latest song instead.Yeah.So do you feel like with this entire script,thought, like, some really good, powerful dialogues in this,but what sort of ends up being going onprime television is Randy dancing on his latest song.So made me feel like I needed more control ofwhat I was putting out, what my name was attachedto, and just sort of like the space to createwithout more people in the hierarchy of, like, oh, no,this doesn’t work, or that doesn’t work.I needed full control. Yeah.So pretty much that was the reason why I discontinuedmy job, because I felt like everything I do, thebaby that is mine, will be altered and so manychanges will happen, so many feedback rounds, and what yousee eventually is I love that.Not at all.I think this is something I don’t know.This is a very popular meme, especially on theInternet with designers, and I used to hate, absolutelyhate this when I was working for clients.I no longer work for clients, and I really lovethat because I want to have that privilege in mylife that I do not I don’t want to createfor someone because then it’s their idea.You want to have that you can honestly, again, I feellike there’s still, like, room to do other people’s work andlike to bring some of your own ideas to it, butthen the team has to be receptive for your ideas.And I think it’s more like I think what’schanged is I think I love collaborations now.It’s like you find synergies, you find alignment,and then you work with someone exactly.Instead of working on someone else’s, which is okay.I think you can also create projects forsomeone unless, like, only when you feel alignedwith but I don’t think you always havethat chance to start in your careers.Honestly, if you’re just starting on your career, expecta lot of feedback and just be prepared foryour idea to be torn apart into pieces.Because the first few years, you’re just sort of gettingto know more about how things work and how littlepieces come together to make a big brand campaign.And it might be very demotivating, I’m notgoing to lie, because it’s a rat race.We all know that everybody wants to sort of evenan office environment, people want to be yes, absolutely.They want to be the one who’s been noted.It’s like, oh, I wrote this film,and I wrote this Billboard ad.But expect a lot of people overshadowing you, even thoughyou might feel like you didn’t want to work, butthat will happen in the first few years.And then I think it’s all about sortof, like, finding the right time for youto deviate, but, like a soft launch.Then you would have to go, like, leaveyour job and put everything on stage.There might be just a stupid, like, advice togive to people, like, quit your job and, like,start doing what you want to do.And I think it’s not realistic, and I think it’salso like, if you have a job that I havea lot of friends who love their jobs and theylove their creativity and whatever they are doing.Otherwise, it’s like in a time like today, I thinkyou’re grateful for, I think, a lot of work that. I do.I’m very grateful that I have this resource that’staking care of a lot of my bills.And this is something that may not, but I’m creatingbecause I really love it and I’m grateful for this.Like, it is gratitude.But you have to realize that you andI have been will clearly come from privilege.Yes, absolutely.There is a lot of sort of relief in knowingthat you will never be out on the streets.And a lot of times people are way more creativethan me, are stuck in a bad job because theydon’t have that kind of cushion to support them.Which is why I feel like even companies, what they needto do is sort of invest in their own talent ina way where people don’t feel like they’re stuck in ajob because they don’t have the finances to do anything elsebut the owner of the company or the agency.People should sort of like scout talent that’s more thanjust like a nine to five person and invest inthem and maybe present their work to bigger clients.I mean, that’s the least you can do becauseeverybody like even your intern wants to be seen.Like, everybody who’s doing their job is coming andthey’re trying to do a good job, but ifthey go unnoticed, eventually they’ll be like, fine, Iguess I’ll just sit on my lap.I think also this is like the changingwork that everybody wants to be recognized.And I think in today’s time there’s a lot of identity.Like everybody’s I think there wasa limiting so much to table.I mean, personally, my podcast produceris way younger than I am.She is 21. Wow.But I feel like there’s so much I can learn from her.Yeah.She gets me real grip of what’s happening inthe Gen Z audience, what are they up to?And some of the ideas like she’sso thrifty and she’s so quick.And I’m like, I wish I had theseskills, but I know that I don’t.Which is why I love that I have someone eventhough they’re not like the same age as I am,but they’re so much more smarter in other ways.I think it’s also like I think as you growolder, you come to terms with who you are, whatworks for you, what doesn’t work for you.I think when I started in the industry, I felt likeI had to put up this facade, let’s say, or youhave to behave in a certain way, or you need tobe your peers and how they look at you.Also, everybody wants to move forward.And I’m going to ask this question to you.I came from a small town to a bigger city.Even though, like, I’ve always beenhere, I have a family here.But even then, like, starting off and on your ownidentity and something about small towns is that you growup in a very warm, driven and, like, everybody knowseverybody, and you still feel very safe.And when you come out in a bigger citywhere nobody knows nobody and you are nobody, andI think that really got into me.Like, I felt like I didn’t feel safe, and Ifelt like I had to map my way out.And of course, as any othercreative, I wasn’t doing the job.I knew I was never cut out for it.And I always had this desire that Iwanted to create something on my own.But then I realized, okay, thiswas taxing me, burning me out.And with the pandemic, howdo you have that realization?I think one thing that I feel is becauseeven when you feel like you’re doing a lotof things, but actually you’re not, like nothing moving.Also, I think nothing moves.I have grown, and I say this, I’ve grownthe most in the past two or three yearsin my career right from my bed.All while I suffered the biggest loss of my life.I really didn’t move out of my house at all.I really was at a comfort inthe sense that I’m an introvert.In the sense apart from my work, it’sintimidating for me to reach out to people.You like your own space, and unless askedto come out, you would rather stay there.And also, I found my people.I was like, if I don’t have someone immediately, like, Ifelt like I really didn’t want things to like, to dothings that people expected was what I wanted to do.So I found that sweet spot, and Iwas like like, this is my formula.This is really what gets me out ofbed every day, even when it was hardest.I don’t think if I didn’t feel thisway, I would have found my way.And getting up out of bed every day,even today, I wouldn’t say it’s easy.So what’s the card you pull out for yourself?Oh, yeah, the morning card.It’s a very popular she’s avery popular artist called Rebecca Campbell.So she has these three sets of I have the Light in you.I love that deck.So it’s like oracle cards.You pull a card and you spread it out. Yeah.And you pull one card.So there are different ways youcan have 12350kay, whatever that cost.There’s also manual.Like, a lot of artists do this.Are you trying to oh, I really wantto do I have a book in progress.We have the magazine in progress.A lot of things, Oracle cards,but, like, with big cats.Oh, I’ll do the Marani.Yeah, marani is really funky. Yeah.You’re feeling rather lonely today.Like, this marani.I love that idea.That could be like, actual Maharani facts in there.This marani was famous for what? Oracle cards.These decks have energy cards.So basically, when you pull a card, it givesyou like that’s what we were talking about.The card was about being an impact.And I have had so many lows and downs inthe past few weeks because emotional turmoil and all ofthat and I felt like, oh my God, being sucha sensitive person has become more like sure.Yeah, it’s like, wow, I’m having a sad day yet again.Yeah, it really feels like not like, honestly, the dayswhich go like smoothly, I’m like, something feels off.Why haven’t I cried in the last?And honestly, crying makes me feel the best.Honestly, I think carrying that baggage is again, Ihave a podcast that’s called The Overthinking and recentlyI was sort of on an article that talkedabout why people tend to overthink.And there was research based on if you growup in a strict household and you have extrastrict parents, then there is a chance that youbecome somebody who tends to overthink more.And I’m like, what?This is what’s been happening?Yeah, absolutely.People we have to go under the skin.Under the skin of what?Yeah, I think I’m a person.Why I started podcasting is because Iwould be that person in a room.Even when I was shy sometimes I didn’thave the courage to ask questions, but myhead I had a million questions.Why are you here? Correct.Why are you doing what you’re doing?That’s what overthinking is.You sort of like overanalyze the things thatyou could have said but you didn’t.And you sort of like figure outthe multiple ways of exiting situation andhonestly, again, it feels like a burden.Overthinking is not fun.I’m sorry that it is a terrible problem thatI have and I’m definitely working on it, buta lot of people suffer from this.So again, the idea of my podcast was tosort of make it a less lonely activity.When you’re lying in bed at 03:00 a.m.Scrolling on your Instagram and you know that your mindis full of like so many thoughts but you can’treally like tell what’s what is it that’s bothering you?It’s at that moment where I want totell you that we’re all in this together.What are you going through?Probably gone through it before orlike going through it right now. Yeah.Sometimes you think, oh, it’s only happening to me.Otherwise, I think that’s the power of communities.You’re right.It really feels like we’ve sortof developed a community that together.It feels less ashamed about their life.And it’s not only you, even we haveto go to put ourselves through this.Let’s do it together.Why do I have to soil in my thoughts all bymyself and think like, oh, why is this happening to me?You need someone, you need an outlet.I think it’s really hard if you’re just onyour own and you’re just like rewinding because youcan’t think your way out of a problem.Also, being the creative is initself, a lot of solitude. It is.I hate it, though, since the dynamic.I love solitude, but I want to choose it.I don’t want to be like, yeah, I get that becauseI know what it does to me, which is why I’malways like I’m still considering if I should get a roommate,like a flatmate, or should I be by myself.Because even though I love my space so much, butI also know that having another person around and justsort of brings like, oh, okay, I’m a human being.I’m real.It’s not a human being.Has that also happened because of COVID?Post 100%, COVID was really like that was when Isort of hit, like, my first Depressive episode because Iwas alone for like, three months and I honestly forgot.What?You like to talk to other human beings.You forgot how to hug people.And coming up covered was really hard.But now I’m sort of in a place where like, okay,I get that I want to be around people, but Ialso want to I like that have my bubble. Yes.Which I think it works for me because I realized thatI don’t need a lot of people to surround me.I don’t need, like, a big circle of friends.These are people that you can align yourself with. Yeah.And like, the people who would be whowon’t mind you just sitting and, like, sulkingand would, like, lend you a year.Just people who don’t jump to, like, youknow, giving you a solution to everything.Okay, tell me something, especially,like, we’re speaking about Pandemic. I know.I saw your episode with, I think, Blue Cycleand Sumoki, and you guys were talking about it,and you said with the Pandemic, your family becamekind of your friends and, like, how a lotof people had their friends become family.And I think I’ve also experienced both the things I havea very small circle, and I think in the Pandemic, itwas the closest I’ve ever felt to my family.And thankfully, I spent a lot of time with my ownmother that I had no clue what was to come.First, let’s talk about moving citiesand then we’ll go to Pandemic. Okay, cool.Because moving from I know what it felt to meas moving from a small town to a bigger cityand then Delhi and then all of that.I think still, this is the biggest shift for me. Yeah.You moved from Delhi to Bombay.How has that felt different?Okay, let me break it down.First two years, two and a half years, I wasin a job, so I still have some structure.I was like, okay, cool, I’m here to work in a job.It gives you purpose.It gives me, like, a little bitof purpose and like, okay, cool.There’s like, 30 days of themonth when I’m going to work.And then I’ll get a message thatsays, your salary has been deposited.And I was sort of like, okay, cool, let’s go.And also another, I think you have social structure.Like, you have friends even if you’re in a new city.Like, if you have a job, you still have, like, a littlebit of a circle that you can talk to or confidence in.But honestly, I feel like those friendships are very like, friendshipsI don’t know, I feel like they’re really like, they comeand they go off stuck in my life, apart from afew of them who are really close to me.But because we were so new and everybody around me wasso new, there’s no, like, oh, this is we’re just tryingto make it in a big city like Bombay.And we all sort of like if I look back from the firsttime I stepped in Bombay, I remember I was in a PG.And, like, my lifestyle has changed.I have lived with five people in one room.Yeah, one room, one washroom.The first PG that I was staying in wasactually like a convertible, like a children’s room.I was sold as a PG.And we were sleeping on, like, spiderman beds,so we couldn’t fit in those beds.They’re made for, like, 4ft small child.I’m like, the spiderman bed is just not enough.It’s not cutting it right.So eventually I was like, who,I need a place for myself.Because the real, like, I think every yearwhen you sort of move, you sort ofgrow as an adult with everything.My PG was, like, my first thing.And I felt like, okay, cool, some control has come.At least I don’t have to meet myparents and I’m not answerable to them anymore.And then I’m answerable to my PG. PG auntie.I’m like, I don’t want this in my life.And that’s when you sort of, like, accelerate andgo to another level where, like, I don’t wantto be answerable to a PG auntie.Maybe I’ll be answerable to my flatmate.And then we sort of like, findanother place where there’s fewer flatmates.You still have your own space,you have your own bathroom.And now those things have becomevery like, you need that.For me, personally, I wish that I was the sameperson I was five years ago, but I’m not.Because even I keep saying this, if someone askedme if I had to do that all overagain, I don’t know if I can. I could do it.But, like, really, with a heavy heart,honestly, 100% honest, I would cry.Yeah, honestly, I can’t.Yeah, I think because and I’m sureit must be the same for you.When I came here, I was too young, and italso felt quite vulnerable when you’re like especially when you’recoming out of first time out of your house.It’s quite overwhelming, but I think having thestructure, like, I’ve really had a great time.I think the best time of my life was when I wasin college because I didn’t feel like I was so responsible oreven we didn’t go to fancy parties or stuff like that.Fancy parties.I remember my first college days was like when wewent out to drink, it’d be like one water shortand we were coming back home and that’s it.And I would like to feel it.And for Delhi, it’s my bar or like father, likeso many of us we would like to go to.And all my friends were likeoutstation people, a lot of them.Even today, I think there’s thisthread that keeps on going.We would go to some monument or somethingand I think I really enjoyed myself thefirst few years in a new city.I feel like if you find yourselflike one friend who’s from that city.Then just use that friend as a guide and reallysort of explore that city as much as you canbecause then you will get busy in the hustle ofthings and then you won’t even realize that. Oh my God.I’ve never seen this side of Delhi orI’ve never seen this side of Bombay.So I think just to sort of feel better about a switch,maybe read up more about the new city that you’re going tobe going to and maybe go on free walking tours.There’s so many companies that dolike walking towards the city.So I think just feeling like, okay, this iswhere you’re going to be, so I might aswell just absorb it like a sponge.Just sort of giving into that feeling.I think that will help instead of restricting the change,instead of fighting it and sort of being like, ohno, but I miss my home just like everybody does.There’s so many people who have come from allparts of the country to be in a metropolitanfor better job opportunities and they’re all worms sake,but they’re all sort of making it happen.So first few years are really hard, but findyourself like a group of friends who can sortof hold your hand through this, basically.Tell me something, how hasBombay impacted you creatively?Oh, my God.Big question.I’ve never really thought about howa city has impacted me creatively.I do feel like it’s thepeople I’ve surrounded myself with.So it’s really not about the city asmuch as I feel like it’s about theexperiences that I’ve had over the years.It’s about the places I’ve put myself into.For example, stands comedy didn’t cometo me on a random day.I would go to a bunch of standup gigs every Tuesday.I’d be like, okay, after work, let me head to alittle show and I would wash on the audience again.I feel like I really sort of, like, gavemy chance to experience new forms of art.Like, I would go to a random play at Theater, get aVP ticket, and go watch, like, a movie at Gay Tine Banja.So I think it’s all the experiences that I’ve sort of had,which sort of made me the person that I am today.It’s not really like city based.It’s the different people that are surroundedmyself, where it’s the content I consume.I honestly feel like if you ask me who I am, it’san amalgamation of every one of our hung out, where all thepeople that I watch virtually or like, some of the just bypeople who surround me and all the bits is now me.I love that.I think there’s no one way of being a creative for me.Like, place has a lot of value impacted you creatively?I think moving back to Auga impactedme so much more as a creative.I didn’t feel that because then Imoved out, I didn’t even know.I felt like I wanted to be a creator.I never accepted that fact for a very long time.I actually detested that back because we grew up, especiallyhow I grew up, being a creator, like an artist.It was like I still remember when we were in school,every year there would be this discussion of having humanities andarts in a subject and in hearts of hearts.I always wanted that and I was barely making it.Honestly, my whole life was a shit.Everybody no, I see people, theyhave like, a wonderful time. I’m like what? What? How?Sorry, but go to a convent school first andthen I also come from a convent school.I think it’s the oh, my God,it’s the pain of my existence.I derive a lot of my comedyand my creativity from my school days.Now I can look back and laugh about it,but honestly, at that point, I was suffering.And not in a dramatic way.I was just suffering being like the studentthat sort of everybody undermined and known.I wasn’t like a teacher’s pet or anything.And then you sort of like eventually you goto a class and then you find that, oh,this teacher is so good to me.Good teacher.Next year, the switch to class teacher.I built so much rapport with my last class teacher.Why can’t you give me the same teacher again?Also finding comfort for me, I thinkI really struggle through school because Ihad huge hard time having learning disabilities.I was a very visual person.And because me and my brother grew up very closely,he would excel at things and he would open hisbook, like last moment, I would mug up my bookfor hours and still never made sense of them.Like, never. Yeah.So it was like, I always form of learning. Exactly.And you feel like, at that point, I always felt likesomething was wrong with me, like I was the black sheep.And eventually I realized, you know what?I just don’t work.Or I’m not just wired the same with somebody else.You’re, like, neurologically different.Your mind works in a different way,but you’re good at other stuff.But you’re right, you don’t have that understandingwhen you’re just in class six right?You just feel like you’re a failure because back,you have to go take your unit test paperhome and get a signature from your parents.And I’m like, I’m doomed, right?Because that feels like the biggest failure,like, failing on a unit test.And when I look back now, I’m like,why are they crying about it so much?Honestly, since I’ve gone on school,I’ve failed so many times.But it only hurts you when it’s on a unit test.It hurts way worse when you haveto, like, go tell your parents.And like, six out of 20, I wasn’t even there.Oh, my God.Six or 20 is, like, a better score. Yeah.This is me after I copied from my partner.I was so bad that I would think, like, before appearingto a test, I was like, I would kill this.Like, I would be very good at it.And the moment I saw the paper and Isaw numbers and everything, I was like, blank same.Absolutely blank again.But as a student, that makes you feel very weak becauseyou’re judged on the base of how much you scored.Nobody’s like, oh, but she’s very clean andshe’s hygienic, and our uniform is on point,and her handwriting is so good.You would not be scored on other aspects.Just be scored on how much you can.Your ability to learn, your ability to like thestandards have changed also now we hope they’ve changed.I mean, honestly, there’s a part of me that’slike, why aren’t kids now getting corporate punishment?Why was I the only one being beaten up?And now these kids are running?No, I see younger people.I have niece and nephews now, and Ithink they’re growing up so much more differently.My sister is a parent.My brother is a parent.Like, I have so many kids in the house now,and I see how parenting is so different now.Are they iPad kids?My youngest nephew is like, he just turnedone, and he was like so there’s CocoMelon, which is very popular here.I don’t know if he would sleep and if there was asound, any part of the room, he would wake up from sleep.And he was not even, like, months old.He was so upset.That is like a part of growing up for me. It is.I feel like, of course, they’re growingin a different generation, and people areborn with phones in their hands.The first thing you do is like, I mean, Isee so many mothers who, like, are young mothers and,like, they just leave their kids with an iPad.And I’m also thinking about, like, how hard it isto raise a kid because you’ve been working, like, twojobs and they also have a baby and they wantthat baby to be entertained and not, like, bored.Honestly, it seems like a heart.It definitely is.I’m seeing it up close, and it definitely is the responsibilityof having somebody, because the first few years as a kidis when you are sort of brain level up. Right.And I don’t know if CoComelon is doingany harm, but I hope it’s not.Yeah, I hope it’s not.Okay, tell me something.Where is your heart taking you now?My question is, and I feel like I want tobegin this, I love this question, you have been takingme, you’ve been podcasting, you’re a comedian, you’ve been writing.Do you see yourself creating in any other medium?That’s like calling you now creatively? What’s that?And what’s something like, where isyour heart going creatively now?That’s a good question.I feel like I’m in a place mentally, where I feellike I have enough sort of people in my team.And I have built sort of connectionsover my last five years in podcasting.And I feel like I can now sort of start my own network.Oh, wow.Honestly, nobody else nobody needs another network.But you need my network becauseit’s only women in podcasting.I love that this is a women’s only podcast.Again, we think that we don’t need.But if you were to ask me, I might do it now.It’s in need of the hour because Ihave been thinking about it for a while.There’s a bunch of networks in and around India.India’s sort of like a growing, growingpodcast audience, but out there in theUS is a whole bunch of networks.And there’s something that I’ve seen in allthe networks is the sort of discrepancy inwomen hosts and, like, men hosts.So 20% of the podcasts currentlyare hosted by women only 20%.And they’re also mostly cohosted.There’s not, like, a woman centric.Like, a woman is on the micand she’s talking to a group.And I think it makes a lot of difference because Ifeel like a lot of people ask why we start, whyI have, like, a women’s only community or a platform over.I asked them why not?Because I’m not, like, making you listen to only women.The world view that we’re giving you is still,like, from everyone’s perspective, and we just want morewomen to be seen as speakers and to beseen as powerful women with, like, powerful opinions andthen opinions that need to be out there.Like, I mean, if Joe Rogan has a successfulattitude and he talks about taking DMT, like, onceevery five minutes, then I think women deserve.And also, I think I always keep on saying, like,this is the most intimate experience of my life.I know the best.I know I want more peopleto join me in this perspective.And I think this is also, like, Ifeel like a creative call as a creative.My podcast is another of my creation.Your podcast is your creation.And it’s also a very personal process.And you feel connected and you feel authentic too.And I feel like we all needlike a of course, all reasons.Like, we need more empowerment, we need more voiceand like a female, like a collective female voice.And that comes from all john jars.And that’s why I wanted to include moreand more people from different fields, not onlyvisual arts, writing, musicians, everybody who has astory to tell is worthy of a stage.And that’s essentially the idea that I’m sort of pushedby the aim is not to create a network.The aim is to create an ecosystem which makesit easy for women to have their word outthere and also sort of become financially stable.Forecasting.It‘s a lot of money.It takes you all the equipment costs money,so you to break it to you. It’s a lot of work.It’s a lot of work.So we want to make it easier forwomen who have a good story, but theydon’t understand the behind the scenes of it.And we’ll make it easier and we’ll sort of bethe people who sort of gets a story out there.And I feel like it’s worth the sort of strife.And what the extra corner?You have your first student, learner, clients, whatever youcall that, you will do up my office.Oh, I love that.Thank you so much for listening to this episode.You can find all the details andlinks mentioned in the show notes ofthis episode available on www.askuhasproject.com.And if you like this episode, please don’t forget totag us in your stories and leave us a reviewhere on itunes or any of your favorite platforms.It really helps us to keep the show going.Thank you so much.I’m sending you lots of love and Ican’t wait to be back here soon again.Bye, you.

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