This week’s Arts to Hearts Podcast is extra special as we’ve got not one, but two amazing guests. In this episode, our host Charuka Arora sits down with Liezel Strauss and Pegah Kargar who are the co-founders of Art Girl Rising and Repaint History. While Liezel and Pegah’s individual art journey began years ago, they recently joined hands to create an enterprise that aims to challenge the gender gap in the art world and empower women and non-binary artists.

In this podcast, Leizel and Pegah talk about how they both decided to use their expertise to create a joint social enterprise and how challenging it has been for them to find financial stability. For Leizel and Pegah, the number one objective from day one has always been to create a platform for supporting women and non-binary artists. That’s why, every decision they have taken so far has been made to further that cause. Liezel and Pegah also had their own individual life experiences that had a huge role in influencing them to support women in arts. However, their journey has been beset by its own challenges, which they are artfully navigating through.

Liezel Strauss launched Art Girl Rising in 2018 in order to support the female artists in the industry. On the other hand, Pegah Kargar was on her own path, where after a decade of being in the finance industry, she entered the art industry and founded Repaint History in 2018. Both of these exemplary women were doing their part in making sure that women artists had equal opportunities, until they connected online during the pandemic and instantly bonded with each other. Their joint frustration over the way women have been put in boxes, and how female and non-binary artists are not given their due recognition, brought them together. Their collaboration has been a gift to the art world ever since!

From conceiving a simple idea of highlighting women in arts to now hosting mentorship sessions for artists and donating more than $37,000 in artist funding, both Liezel and Pegah have come a long way. To find out more about the impact they are making in the art world, tune in to this week’s Arts to Hearts Podcast.

Timestamp	Summary
00:00.00	Introduction to the podcast and gratitude for the invitation
02:11.24	Personal experiences of gender inequality and the mission to support women
05:18.50	Meeting through an online community during COVID-19
10:20.11	Reflecting on the positive impact of their partnership
11:18.15	Highlighting the importance of their shared vision
15:03.12	Discussing the financial aspect of their work
16:29.98	Sharing the personal motivation behind their focus on gender gap
21:58.35	Viewing art as a business
23:28.35	Struggles of being an artist and the taboo around money
24:07.16	Importance of sustainable revenue for social enterprises
25:59.21	Need for fair payment in the art industry
26:26.54	Starting small and the cost of producing a podcast
27:04.16	Importance of keeping information accessible
27:22.10	Story about a writer’s journey to success
28:36.28	Artists as entrepreneurs
29:28.66	Artists needing to find revenue streams
30:04.38	Challenges in the art world
38:22.69	Success of the merchandise
43:18.68	Empowering women and non-binary artists financially
45:03.30	Impact of the work being done
47:48.47	Building partnerships and collaborations globally.
50:45.20	Making a change and creating space for everyone.
56:18.47	Challenges of financial sustainability in social enterprise work.
57:19.87	Discussion about working for not-for-profit organizations.
57:34.81	Importance of providing value and giving back to the community.
01:05:38.53	Dream of having a global database of women artists

**** – (): 00:00.00

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, welcome to the Podcast Pegg up Welcome to the podcast lisil right? That’s how I say it liser liser. Ah, ah see we finally made it I am so glad after a lot of coordination.

**** – (): 00:00.00

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): The.

**** – (): 00:05.36

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): He liso like diesel.

**** – (): 00:06.60

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, yeah, thank you? legal.

**** – (): 00:19.47

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): This day has finally come. How does it feel to be on the Arts two Hearts podcast.

**** – (): 00:23.90

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): It feels fantastic. Thank you so so much and thank you for your patience and thank you to Raia and yourself honest been. Yeah, just we are on 3 such different time zones that it’s just been.

**** – (): 00:26.41

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I.

**** – (): 00:31.86

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 00:41.40

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): But we are yeah we very grateful. Thank you for the invitation.

**** – (): 00:43.21

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): More than happy to have you and I definitely say Daba has a lot of patience and she really did a good job. Thank you so much and I I have been such a big fan of the work that you both do like all of it. Repaint his you now even forgotten like there’s so much to follow on repaint History. There’s um, weekly rise then there is odd girl rising and then there is what women artists want right? There’s where are the women artists. Yes, yes, so.

**** – (): 01:10.71

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Way where where are the women artists. Yes, correct.

**** – (): 01:18.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And we just started. You know I feel like you know how arts 2 hearts happened for me and a lot of people. Um you know comment a lot of times negatively on how my own mission with arts two hearts to unite women artists. It’s a women. Focused community and a platform where people feel like that we’re excluding men per se because apart from that we really include most of like everything but it also comes from a very personal experience of being a woman being raised in India and we spoke about how you both also come. Um, from a culture. You know you come from South Africa you come from Iran. Do you think you’re growing up all of these like looking at your own cultures has that also ingrained that um, that mission of supporting women in gender.

**** – (): 02:11.24

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): How about you who’s going first.

**** – (): 02:13.12

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Sorry yes ah I’ll go sorry Pegos waiting for you. Um, for me certainly years I have since a very very young age. Well not that young in high school.

**** – (): 02:16.99

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Go.

**** – (): 02:30.19

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, I noticed that the boys retreated differently in my school and um, it was very a very basic thing but they could wear trousers and put long Johns under and be warm and we had to wear skirts and freeze and.

**** – (): 02:47.41

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): I concocted a little um, rebellious act of getting my friends together. We all borrowed trousers and we we rocked up at school in trousers and I think that was it wasn’t the first time I was aware of it. But it’s the first time that I took action.

**** – (): 03:04.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 03:06.80

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): And I certainly from very early on was super aware that it wasn’t okay for a girl to behave in a certain way and and I’m not suggesting that we don’t have those limitations on men I am very well aware that. The toxic masculinity plays out very much for main 2 So but I think both things can be true at the same time. Um, so it’s always been a Ah i’m.

**** – (): 03:31.42

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 03:36.38

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Ah, feverishly passionate about this I believe that’s why I’m on this planet to help do this work also growing up in South Africa to see all the inequalities that was happening here. Um, you know that I think I was always going to do this work to try and you know help that.

**** – (): 03:44.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 03:56.20

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): That feeling of guilt certainly guilt that I grew up under the apartheid regime regime not under it because you know I was on the other side. Um, but equality has played an enormous role in my life for as long as I can remember and. And I must say I don’t struggle at all with people or or anybody saying to me? Oh but it’s only for women like I don’t I just I don’t even I it. It just doesn’t resonate with me at all because as long as women are not Equal. We have no.

**** – (): 04:20.70

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Care. Yeah.

**** – (): 04:30.82

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): That’s going to be there.

**** – (): 04:31.68

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): To apologize for the work that we do and as long as the non numbers are as shocking as it is I will keep doing this work as feverishly and as loud as possible.

**** – (): 04:36.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 04:42.63

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Love that what about you Peca Pi you mute I think we can’t hear you again is it? Are you disconnected again.

**** – (): 05:13.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Think there’s an internet issue on her hand.

**** – (): 05:18.50

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): I Think so I think so you will edit it? Um, ah we both met. It is a fantastic wonderful story. We um.

**** – (): 05:19.85

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): So how did you both meet.

**** – (): 05:29.39

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh my God I’m listening.

**** – (): 05:33.51

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Well, it’s it’s I guess I guess energetically feeling wise it’s it’s magical. The the mechanics of it is is you know quite plain but we um, we we started ah exchanging messages during covid.

**** – (): 05:35.56

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 05:48.63

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh.

**** – (): 05:49.94

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): You know as everybody said we were in. You know we were in lockdown and we were on Instagram we knew of each other’s work during um during covid before covid and then during covid we you know I’m sure you can relate everybody just started the online community so important and we started.

**** – (): 05:54.32

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 06:01.71

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, started. Yeah, yeah, it’s been a savior.

**** – (): 06:09.47

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Hawking and the yeah it has been the savior and and we it was a group of us. Um I saw you interviewed the wonderful caen butine. She’s a very dear friend who also came into my life during the same time and then J five.

**** – (): 06:17.96

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, oh wow.

**** – (): 06:26.27

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): And Lauren from black women in visual arts. It was just a but and yes.

**** – (): 06:27.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, we have a lot of same circle in all of these and we’ve always I think we have been the the Covid group I think cat you Eica calen.

**** – (): 06:35.26

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Is yeah, correct correct and so you know the group started sort of forming and we started talking more and more and then um, we I started. Um i. Formed fair art. The pledge project for museums to take. Um, it’s in keeping with the un’s ah, sustainable development goals and Peco was one of the people I also reached out to later or not at the initial phases but later on and we started speaking and then um, yeah, we just started. Realizing a pit big and I finally hopped on a video call and we met and it was just chemistry. We were just like it was amazing and then we discovered she started her t-shirts her go glorious woman art. It’s the exact. Yes, the exact same month.

**** – (): 07:23.28

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, um, and they become really popular.

**** – (): 07:30.16

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): That I started the article rising t-shirts the same month in the same year and I was in Malaysia who was in Toronto and we had a similar idea and just say to each other. Why are we doing? Why would we do the same thing independently. We’re both social enterprise.

**** – (): 07:33.49

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow! no.

**** – (): 07:46.86

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 07:50.60

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Let’s come together. Let’s do this glorious work together and then I it was for more than a year and a half that we worked together just remotely. We had a sick call every Tuesday it was like nine zero a m um her morning it was nine p M her evening.

**** – (): 08:07.27

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow because you were in Malaysia.

**** – (): 08:08.90

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): And we would have a call if Tuesday and we just would support it. Yeah I know I was at this point in the meantime I moved to China and she was still in Toronto but it was a 13 hour time difference but we kept it every week and pega just had her baby. It was like like so.

**** – (): 08:15.82

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh.

**** – (): 08:25.48

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh my god I didn’t know that pick. Ah I thought you was still 16 seriously seriously this is news to me.

**** – (): 08:28.25

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): It’s yes, this was like three years ago yes actually

**** – (): 08:32.13

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): I Ah yeah think I was I wish I was it was still I’m surprised but but.

**** – (): 08:36.30

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): I Know it’s amazing right? And we.

**** – (): 08:41.62

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): A.

**** – (): 08:47.11

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 08:47.26

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Can you hear me.

**** – (): 08:48.61

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): I’m just yes, we can you beautifully I’m just quickly finishing the story about how we made and theru guy guess ah you can just edit it out right? Please thank you and I just want to make sure I pronounce your name right? Chris.

**** – (): 08:54.49

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Complete.

**** – (): 08:58.48

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, absolutely.

**** – (): 09:02.34

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, absolutely all good.

**** – (): 09:06.30

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Of right? at this start. Um, and so in every Tuesday me and Pega just had these dates like we would meet and we would just talk. It was just so weird we would she would tell me about her work with repaint history I’ll tell her about our work throughout. Go rising. And it just got better and better and better and better and then last year I was in the us and we had a meeting with with the Philadelphia Museum Of Art and pega flew from Toronto and we met in Philadelphia and it was just so magicalally like.

**** – (): 09:37.80

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow, Do it a real life hard. Oh my god.

**** – (): 09:41.25

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Like hold each other and um, exactly and it was only I think we only had like 18 hours together because her baby was still young and we did not stop talking and on that trip, we just.

**** – (): 09:47.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh well.

**** – (): 09:55.76

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Why don’t we merge like it’s ridiculous. Why are we doing 2 social enterprises the same thing we are not in it for profit we in it for for changing and you know deconstructing and reconstructing so let’s let’s. Work together and so we’ve in that in a cab on the way to the national gallery of us. Um, ah to the Philadelphia Philadelphia busy of art in the taxi we decided we will now become one organization and that’s that’s flu.

**** – (): 10:20.11

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You’ll mudge. Wow I love that how do you think has that now coming together. How has that changed things for you or made it better I’m sure 2 forces coming together. How has that.

**** – (): 10:24.99

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And the rest is history and.

**** – (): 10:37.86

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Change things the for the whole mission that you both are on.

**** – (): 10:43.58

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): I Think what’s really beautiful about this partnership. Can you hear me? Okay, okay, um I think what’s really beautiful about this partnership is how our skill sets come come together and.

**** – (): 10:43.98

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, very well.

**** – (): 10:56.27

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 11:01.12

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Easel Strength stress set of skills are so different from my set of skills. But also we have mutual understanding and the vision. So I think that works beautifully because you know.

**** – (): 11:07.26

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Common. Yeah.

**** – (): 11:18.15

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): The way we bring things to the table and the way we put it together and constructed and and while having that same vision is just it’s been I Think in my view. It’s worked beautifully and we kind of have. Call each other out on things that you know needs to work differently or on things that you know I don’t see it the same way or she doesn’t see it the same way and and it’s just we talk through it because we understand the vision the mission. And we understand how each side of the business works and what is it that we’re trying to achieve together and I think that’s you know it is quite rare to find someone who really you really resonate with you and also this isn’t.

**** – (): 12:04.15

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You align so much with yeah.

**** – (): 12:12.69

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): This is whether you know we can call it whatever we want, but it’s a marriage because being in a business with someone. It’s It’s at some like I Sometimes it’s even more crucial than your actual personal partner in real life.

**** – (): 12:14.38

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, hundred percent absolutely

**** – (): 12:16.34

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, trend.

**** – (): 12:24.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 12:31.52

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Because it has such a huge impact on what you do? So it’s It’s very yeah I just consider myself really lucky to have found Oh I’m so sorry I don’t know. Okay I’m saying I’m just I just consider myself really lucky.

**** – (): 12:36.73

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): We lost her and no, no, no no, we can hear you.

**** – (): 12:39.84

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Say again? No no, don’t worry. Yes.

**** – (): 12:50.92

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): You have found someone like lisel to be doing this work with that. We’re both so passionate about So I think that’s how I ah you know.

**** – (): 12:59.53

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Dito Didter know I struck the jackpot. It’s wonderful. It’s wonderful. Not and it’s and I also think it’s worth saying that it took us a while to.

**** – (): 13:05.46

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah I Love the love you have for both of you like each of you That’s so admirable.

**** – (): 13:08.72

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yeah, yes.

**** – (): 13:15.15

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And this is other.

**** – (): 13:16.73

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): It took us and it’s been one year now that we’ve been officially one organization and we were just very kind and gentle with each other with how what does that look like you know, a lot of literacy to work through and we we just.

**** – (): 13:20.41

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): 1 yeah.

**** – (): 13:27.33

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Now.

**** – (): 13:29.30

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 13:34.46

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Took it slow. We took it very very so yes, exactly exactly you know and um North America’s work culture is very different to South Africa’s work culture. We take lots of bread our north america does not I’m always saying to Pega.

**** – (): 13:34.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And working from 2 continents. Yeah.

**** – (): 13:38.97

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 13:44.63

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): So so.

**** – (): 13:48.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Really? ah.

**** – (): 13:53.18

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Take a break take a break you can and he’s been so patient with me and it’s been. It’s honestly it’s been really really good and I think it’s really our dream. Well I’m speaking on but of bigger or 2 But I know she feels the same as that.

**** – (): 13:53.31

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 14:08.70

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Now.

**** – (): 14:08.89

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): We just wish more people would do that. Actually we’re so excited because caen and Jamie Smith they also merge. Yeah, and we really fly the flag because unfortunately well as you know this work that we do. It isn’t always the best.

**** – (): 14:13.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, they did it? Yes, Yes, Yes, yeah, they they did.

**** – (): 14:16.23

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yes, yes yeah.

**** – (): 14:25.32

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely.

**** – (): 14:26.21

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Job. Well, it isn’t even a paid job most of the time and you run purely on the fumes of passion and then sometimes when you’re exhausted because of you know, um, home care duties or parental duties any of that you run out of steam. But then you have your partner that can.

**** – (): 14:31.84

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 14:32.25

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Is.

**** – (): 14:41.23

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, each other.

**** – (): 14:45.68

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Take over and it’s just been so wonderful.

**** – (): 14:47.71

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, right? Yeah no, it’s been beautiful. It’s been beautiful. Truly.

**** – (): 14:48.82

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): No, that’s true. Yeah peggar you come from finance so I am guessing the numbers that you put out every once in a while on the Instagram really comes from you.

**** – (): 15:03.12

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yeah, um I It’s ah it’s a joint work How we say it’s a joint work that we do. But I do I do have I do have a finance background and it was such a shift to come to the art world and it was something that I think um.

**** – (): 15:06.22

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): E.

**** – (): 15:22.17

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): At the beginning I Still sometimes have hard time explaining what I do to people who um, are not fully entrenched in the art world. But but um, it was It was a big shift to come come to and a pure curiosity your curiosity.

**** – (): 15:27.82

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, what brought you here? What what made you move from finance to were you someone who was invested in the arts.

**** – (): 15:42.00

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): It was it was pure curiosity and I’ve I’ve always been a art lover and interested in art and you know always that that was never you know a separate part of me was always a part of me but I think to. To pursue it as a career was was something that was not on my bingo card and so it was it was such a ah such a shift when I thought about it because it was again going back to the whole ah question around what let me in to. Um, kind of speaking and being passionate about gender gap. It’s also very cultural or for me as well coming from Iran and you know having to being raised in Iran and having to wear a compulsory hijab and and something that you know were ah and the diff.

**** – (): 16:29.98

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 16:37.61

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And webinar.

**** – (): 16:38.48

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Difference between how boys are treated and how girls are treated inherently. That’s something that kind of builds up in you. Um, and then when you as you grow up as you read as you’re interested in different things in in your capabilities. Really you realize that.

**** – (): 16:42.66

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, absolutely.

**** – (): 16:56.98

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 16:58.20

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): You know? Well, That’s not fair and someone needs to do something about it and so I think when it came into the um, the learning about women artists and and the gender gap that exists in the art world. It was. It was such a trigger for me because it it was. Very much I was like what’s what how is this possible. This is not and I thought I’m doing it wrong I’m reading it wrong I’m reading old research papers and so I thought okay I need to spend some time really figuring this out and and what was really interesting to me was that.

**** – (): 17:18.75

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Possible.

**** – (): 17:37.69

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): No one at the time in 18 when Diesel and I started no one was actively talking about this. It was you know there’s a national museum woman in art that they were all they’ve been always. There’s guerrilla girls that they have always but the momentum of it was not.

**** – (): 17:41.68

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): About it.

**** – (): 17:49.53

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, absolutely it didn’t come to so much a spotlight? yeah.

**** – (): 17:57.23

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, as as today that’s right? and so so that kind of fueled me at that point to spend some time figuring out how and what and then eventually I felt. So passionate about it that I thought okay well I need to try this and see if you know if I can make a dent and then yeah and then and then of course I yeah well.

**** – (): 18:19.30

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): But I can say sorry and Pega’s financial skills are god san to our social enterprise because let me tell you.

**** – (): 18:20.33

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You did more than a dent I’m sure.

**** – (): 18:30.45

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Ah.

**** – (): 18:34.19

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, yeah.

**** – (): 18:36.50

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Up to me. It will be a disaster and she is just like whenever we do a new project. She’s like always what’s happening me I’ll do the financial forecast and these and I’m like I’m very scared to look at it. Yes.

**** – (): 18:48.42

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): My brain does not work like that like yeah, absolutely like it’s like a it’s like ah it’s like a magic skill when I look at someone so I have friends who my partner is also runs a business and I’m like um, okay help me figure this out like the first time I saw m I s.

**** – (): 18:48.85

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 18:53.61

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, no because I think.

**** – (): 19:04.80

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): That’s evening.

**** – (): 19:05.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I was like I would always look at him I we work together. Also I’m like I don’t know how you do this and there was one day when I was like I need to have an I s for arts to hearts and I was like my God am I really doing this and it’s poked me out I’m like I don’t think I’m like I am eligible for this job. But you know you just have to.

**** – (): 19:22.39

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): So yeah I think what makes it um difficult Oh sorry Diesel I jump I think what makes it? Ah um, um, it’s it’s something for me. That’s always like we have to kind of.

**** – (): 19:24.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Make do.

**** – (): 19:25.77

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yeah, it’s crucial. Ah not at all.

**** – (): 19:39.31

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Track it because we are a social enterprise with a social mission. We are not a non-for Profitt and don’t think it gets when you’re a social enterprise with a social mission. It’s very much you know how we make um, what we make.

**** – (): 19:40.39

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, not for profit. Yeah yeah.

**** – (): 19:53.95

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Impact.

**** – (): 19:59.19

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And the impact it’s kind of intertwined because if we run out of ah, ah funds and money we can’t do what we’re doing right? So so it’s very important that we keep an eye on that and make sure.

**** – (): 19:59.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah money? Yeah yeah mean.

**** – (): 20:16.41

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 20:16.92

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, it’s also we’re social entrepreneurs right? So social Entrepreneurship does not necessarily mean no like having no revenue it means you have to have a sustainable revenue and.

**** – (): 20:18.93

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 20:24.33

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, and this is you know, um, could be controversial but I really don’t care something I feel like this so much and I think I also came at that point. Um today I think I I’m an artist but I also run a business which is. Specifically for the same audience that I come from and I think as I keep growing I know that with my own experiences I think you start building what you experience and you start solving for those experiences and I think that’s how it started for me as well. Um, but also in the sense of I remember when I started in the in the beginning I would I would be so. I think and I I was I so before I started being an artist like my career as an artist I had been working as a designer I had already started a business so I always knew like you know you have to invest in your career in your business to move forward in all of that. But why when I came into the arts I was like you know I was like this new kid who was just trying to fit in. Okay, this is how this industry works and and suddenly I realized that my perception changed everything I knew and I was working in the tech. So I was very well equipped and I knew all of it. But my perception really changed suddenly because I felt like okay so be can artist me is that I don’t it’s not a business It’s not a it’s nothing I have to sit at 1 place I’ll wait for the people will choose me and all of that did that for a while understood that this is never going to get me anywhere. Everything changed for me personally was when I understood like.

**** – (): 21:58.35

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): This is my career as if I was a designer if I was running a business. It’s just as is it’s just a different. It’s just a different profession since then I have yeah since then like a designer if I would pay someone to help me do my portfolio or learn a workshop.

**** – (): 22:04.98

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Medium.

**** – (): 22:06.65

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Times.

**** – (): 22:15.17

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Or do a Pr or get published or like all of these things and then I understood. Okay, so yeah, it makes sense now I understand that the submission there’s a very common issue. We all know about a lot of people come with or we need a lot of art has come with. We need free opportunities and and I a lot of times I say this in return that. We are more than I think we are all here. Um that if we can provide that but who’s supporting those businesses to create those opportunities like every single penny like I know yesterday I felt like there was this huge mountain and I had like this conversation with our team I was like you know.

**** – (): 22:40.98

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): I Miss back.

**** – (): 22:51.87

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I have to make sure that we keep the system running I have to make sure that salaries are paid. All our expenses are paid I can’t commit people for today and disappear next few months because I don’t have the money to pay or rely. So then today I understand. Okay, yeah, if I if we don’t have this.

**** – (): 22:55.32

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, case.

**** – (): 23:10.47

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Revenue ecosystem if we as a business do not understand this. We will never be able to provide this and that means end of the story. There are no opportunities. There’s no women artists. There’s no growth this there’s nothing. So I think a lot of times people do not see this whole chain like how it’s.

**** – (): 23:20.90

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And.

**** – (): 23:22.90

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): No.

**** – (): 23:28.35

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Especially within the art world is such a taboo. It is such a taboo because there’s this notion of struggling artist and that has created this sort of and I understand this is not coming from a place you know working with so many artists in the past.

**** – (): 23:28.36

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): How it’s still yeah.

**** – (): 23:28.70

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 23:34.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 23:47.60

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Few years there are struggles no career is without a struggle but it’s not exclusive to the art world or to to an artist and I think that’s something that um the art world really needs to understand and social enterprises like us.

**** – (): 23:49.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Without is absolutely Yes, yeah. Yeah.

**** – (): 24:07.16

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, needs there needs to be a clarity that it’s not about you know, taking money away and you know for our own good. It’s about yeah change and having a sustainable enterprise that can continue doing the work.

**** – (): 24:12.90

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 24:21.15

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 24:21.27

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): 10

**** – (): 24:24.35

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And I think that’s something that you know sometimes Lisa and I struggle with as well to really explain it.

**** – (): 24:26.28

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I can totally relate how about you leaves.

**** – (): 24:29.36

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Totally today even I had ah sorry yeah today I had um we were doing a newsletter and I was at the end of like I had to write why are they fees and I became really irritated that I had to explain it. But.

**** – (): 24:43.62

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah I can I can completely understand.

**** – (): 24:46.73

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): You know we want to be kind to our one two wonderful audience. But I think what irritates me is that the the problem isn’t just created from within our industry I think the race of the world also view the art.

**** – (): 25:04.82

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 25:05.00

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): As frivolous and not a necessity. You would never over ask somebody to a lawyer to work for you for free ever. But somehow if art is related to it. We expect that to come I don’t know.

**** – (): 25:12.30

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Work for for you? yeah.

**** – (): 25:22.13

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Are we supposed to pay artists or do they supposed to pay rained school fees for their children food drink with um, but how do they always say with exposure. No, we need money everybody needs money that is the current of our world. That’s how we move forward and I think that’s.

**** – (): 25:24.31

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 25:27.28

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Just a hundred percent

**** – (): 25:31.15

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, nanny.

**** – (): 25:40.92

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): To me. It’s twofold. It’s for our community within this industry to understand. But it’s also for people outside and it is a hard we need to start saying? no.

**** – (): 25:45.75

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Outside of the community.

**** – (): 25:51.63

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): When we are not paid fairly for the services we offer We all as a collective need to start saying no because the problem is if only some of our say says no then they’ll just go to others that will do it for free. Um, but it is you can see it.

**** – (): 25:59.21

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Was say no yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what would so go ahead I it I similarly similar.

**** – (): 26:02.19

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yes I.

**** – (): 26:09.27

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): You know you can see it’s topic Pe on Ile Very passionate about and it’s like you say Yeah, how do you keep the lights on how do we keep the light on of this social enterprise if there’s not revenue coming in it just doesn’t make Satans like it.

**** – (): 26:18.84

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): On.

**** – (): 26:26.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And and you know what in the bigger scheme of things I have also like realized like when we were just starting out the capacity of any kind of project that we could do I could do was really small but it never held me back I was like okay, a drop in the ocean I’ll start with something something.

**** – (): 26:27.36

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And.

**** – (): 26:28.67

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): And.

**** – (): 26:44.78

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely something at anything at all and we started small. We started the podcast. This podcast is 100% free and it takes a lot of money for me to just produce 1 1 episode we pay hell lot of ah subscription fees editing fees so much we have someone who manages the podcast. So.

**** – (): 26:54.31

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Of course.

**** – (): 26:57.46

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): No.

**** – (): 27:04.16

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): But this is one way for us to keep information accessible and also for me to being able to like share my own thoughts and I know it comes as cots. But I know okay this is something we can keep going with um I think another problem of the ecosystem from here starts with also I think um.

**** – (): 27:06.63

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): In.

**** – (): 27:22.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I saw this real yesterday and I really liked it. Um, which was um, there was this writer and she said like you know, um, she was just published. Um, she did a screenplay or something for Marvel and she said you know ah a lot of people will tell you oh I was just writing the best thing. And this opportunity just landed for me. She said no absolutely not. She said I started I thought I I acted I am an artist but I’m also an entrepreneur. What I did was she really cholked it out. She was like you know I reached out I um I let this ah I got on the fiber. Found someone told him that you know this is the company. This is the name of the person I’m looking for find me an email address I paid a $35 whatever she did. She got me the email a couple of emails I wrote like a message and I told them that I’m interested and that’s it. No, but she didn’t hear from them at all. She said it took 1 year and she completely forgotten she said I didn’t didn’t it didn’t feel like I was being scammed or I failed my money or like all of those things like an investment any business does into your future and she’s like one year later suddenly my inbox has this message from Marvel we.

**** – (): 28:28.70

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Miss.

**** – (): 28:36.28

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Love your writing would you be interested in doing a screenplay with us and that’s it and I feel like a lot of times. This is one approach that we miss as artists our community where we unless we do not understand the value within us I think that really holds us back. Like if we start thinking about us as like we’re thinking about ourselves as entrepreneurs that we invest into each other we invest in ourselves we ask people to invest in us that and the moment I think artists also understand that the value that you’re creating and if they work like. Basic p ands with basic business where they know there’s a loss There’s a profit. There’s an investment There’s a marketing There’s this and that and I think in today’s time it’s also become more harder because there’s so much that an artist already does. So yeah, they’re already a business today. Don’t you think that.

**** – (): 29:28.66

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And hundred percent this is something we’ve always talked about artists are entrepreneurs in their own right? They have to produce their product. They have to market it. They have to sell it. They have to find revenue streams with.

**** – (): 29:33.53

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely.

**** – (): 29:45.25

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): You are a fine art artist and you choose a traditional path or you know you choose a pass which is more in terms of selling products selling Merchant does carving your own path in both cases you are still an entrepreneur in your own right? because you are.

**** – (): 29:52.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 29:58.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely.

**** – (): 30:04.38

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Producing a product within your knowledge within your skillset within your creative mind and then you have to find ways to actually make money off of that product that you’ve produced and I know this sounds so like.

**** – (): 30:15.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, absolutely.

**** – (): 30:23.60

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And from how you would describe an art world. But in context if you think about it that that the same theme applies right? So so I think it’s for us being in this business and wanting to support entrepreneurs like you know.

**** – (): 30:29.63

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 30:40.98

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): As I said we’re social entrepreneurs. We don’t go to any organization saying give us money for free. No we have to show what we’ve done We have to show. Um, you know our track record and then say hey then go pitch then go make this then we’ll talk about that.

**** – (): 30:43.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, we value? Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes.

**** – (): 30:46.63

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 31:00.93

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And so so I feel like to completely exclude the art world from the rest of the world is just that makes sense and and we really need to but this doesn’t go without saying the I think it really aligns with what lisel was saying earlier is that how.

**** – (): 31:04.52

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely not absolutely not.

**** – (): 31:18.45

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Needs to.

**** – (): 31:20.26

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): The rest of the world when it comes to the art world. They assume it needs to be for free if you ask an artist to do a painting and and you know a commission a painting and you expect them to do it for you know they give you a price they they tell you how much that work is and if you go back and.

**** – (): 31:32.40

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 31:39.22

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Bargain with it to me. It’s like no, you don’t do that You can’t do that with an artist. It’s like this is their craft. This is their work. So I think it’s this notion that needs to be changed and and and that’s yeah, hopefully at some point what.

**** – (): 31:39.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 31:47.31

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Is. And and the the torments the artist had to get through to actually put a price. We know here on the call like how artists struggle to get to that number how it’s such a hard journey and I also.

**** – (): 31:57.40

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Ah, no.

**** – (): 32:04.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh absolutely, it’s such oh absolutely. But you know what isn’t that hard for any time we’re doing something new any I think specifically as creatives like and like Lisa it is like you and me.

**** – (): 32:07.61

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Ah, yes, hundred percent 1

**** – (): 32:11.58

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Right? and I was goatory. Yes, yes.

**** – (): 32:22.17

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I’m sure people like ah Pega who come from a finance I think you’re more articulative you know numbers. There’s a measing but I think a lot of creative people. Um like who have no know how of like you know, um you know the tactical side of these things.

**** – (): 32:25.30

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And.

**** – (): 32:37.92

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): It’s It’s so personal I think I’ve been through that journey where everything feels sojo ah personal and I think I and I also keep saying this like as an artist and I see this difference within myself as an artist as a creative on tip now.

**** – (): 32:51.46

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Anything that I do as an artist I know that I have to disassociate I have to vary intentionally disassociate myself with anything I am doing here I’m already disassociated this is an Og I’m an independent person. My my business is different. It’s not me completely with this I feel I’m vulnerable like you know when artists feel intimidated the price.

**** – (): 33:08.96

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): A.

**** – (): 33:10.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Because like they feel attacked. They feel vulnerable. They feel seen and I think that intimates a lot of us.

**** – (): 33:16.10

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yeah, and like you said earlier to this the the story you told what the was told with the writer I think we also people forget including myself that things take time things just take time everything good takes time and with.

**** – (): 33:27.59

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely new. Yeah.

**** – (): 33:34.10

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): With the Instagram culture and Tiktok and all of that it creates this illusion that it snaps up snap boom there you go and what people they don’t understand is behind the scenes and um and I think it can easily um.

**** – (): 33:38.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Illusion. Yeah yeah.

**** – (): 33:52.69

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): You know it can be very daunting because and I also fall into that trap I look at other people and I’m like oh my God I have it all figured out and yeah, we are like you know peddling away. But.

**** – (): 33:58.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): We have.

**** – (): 34:05.19

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): I think just that trying to ground and understand that this kind of work takes time whether you create a beautiful art piece or you do activism work or anything really meaningful does take time and sometimes the world is also not ready to hear things like for me and Pega. You know, a lot of the work we. Do it just comes a little bit too early and then we are like right ready I mean us say is guns blazing I mean there’s crickets and we’re like what do you mean? This is awesome and then a year later people like oh.

**** – (): 34:29.16

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And.

**** – (): 34:31.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, ah, the world’s still getting ready.

**** – (): 34:41.35

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): This is awesome. You should have done it a while back. We like we did nobody wanted it.

**** – (): 34:46.58

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Nobody was no that is true that is true but tell me something now How what’s happening like we we know about this merger. We know that you’ve come together. Um, what’s happening I know ah because we also.

**** – (): 34:47.95

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, yeah, it’s so true. That’s good.

**** – (): 35:04.27

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You know, submitted and I still submit like you know this is something again. I’m focusing on because um, I’m Suren and I’m going to ask you about this museum collaboration that you’re doing but just in a side note like even not as an artist but also as um, business people as running a creative business There are so many pictures that we put out. Um. So many unusual ideas that we come up with and then we start with nothing and we keep at it and keep at it and keep at it invested in in it also like businesses also like that like you invest in yourself way before it really gives you a return or it feels like you know because you have to like anything that’s been that you want to build. You have to like you know, have to nurture a water plant nurture it speak good to it and let it bloom slowly and steadily and I think that goes for artists creative entrepreneurs all of us. But first tell me about um this museum collaboration that you’re doing I’m very excited because um. Had some great booksiteers and when I saw it and I was like let’s do it and I wrap raia and I quickly you know, put together our thoughts and we filled the farm and we were very excited but how did you make it happen. What are happened like what does um behind the scenes.

**** – (): 36:05.16

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 36:16.72

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): How does it look like for you. What do you guys? do? What are you working? What do you think about it.

**** – (): 36:23.88

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, Thesele I’ll started then jump in please as as as ah, so to give you context. Um, we we have 4 different screens right? And so one of the things that easel and I did was to really sit down.

**** – (): 36:27.11

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): It’s perfect.

**** – (): 36:34.21

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 36:41.85

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And understand what the future of each of these streams are in terms of impact and in terms of in a context of the business and so the way we’ve carved out the the future for each of these streams was.

**** – (): 36:44.97

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 37:00.18

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Something that you know was a working progress. It was that there was a lot of visions and missions in there and so what we we had to take a step back and look at what is our strength that we currently have where are we as an organization and you know we have two really.

**** – (): 37:17.50

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Grow.

**** – (): 37:19.79

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Clear strengths here. 1 is the is the large community of um women and non-binary artists that we have as well as the network of professional artists that we have um.

**** – (): 37:21.66

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 37:37.30

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Created an absurd network of professional like art professionals that we have created in the past few years so we really thought about how do we bring these 2 together to create impact right? So though think of us as who’s bringing their network that we’ve built.

**** – (): 37:39.86

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yep.

**** – (): 37:44.62

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Together. Yeah.

**** – (): 37:53.34

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Are.

**** – (): 37:57.90

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And connecting artists to it so then women and non-binary artists can thrive through these connections so we took that and applied it every single stream that we have and and and you know the museum museum shops is that another iteration of that.

**** – (): 37:59.99

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 38:16.41

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Lizo and I started um ah repain history inaugurizing through 1 of the ways that we were creating awareness was merchandise and really fun and cool and ahead of time really because no one was doing that at the time and liso had a lot of success.

**** – (): 38:22.69

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah. Yeah.

**** – (): 38:36.33

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, with with the with her merchandise when she started and repain history did too. But you know to be fair I don’t think to the extent that agar rising did and so so what we did was that we had a look to see okay through this merchandise we’ve. Created a network of museum shops that you know they’ve purchased our products they’ve brought the products into their museum. We’ve kept in touch with them. We’ve done different projects with them and it’s not easy right? because they’re major usms and so so then we looked at our community and we thought.

**** – (): 39:05.64

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely yes.

**** – (): 39:15.34

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Wait a minute our community have products they have um, a lot of unique products that they create through the art that they have so why don’t we bring our network bring our community together and let the community.

**** – (): 39:15.87

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, unique product.

**** – (): 39:34.32

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Thrive in terms of economical empowerment in terms of carving a space for themselves in museum shops. The idea of arising shelf was lisel’s idea from the beginning I think that’s what he he was really going towards you know, having that.

**** – (): 39:43.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Love that I think so brilliant tight here.

**** – (): 39:53.61

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Space and I think this is really the next? Well not the next. It’s this. It’s it’s the path to having um a shelf in museum shops dedicated to women and non-binary artists lisel if you want to add to that.

**** – (): 40:06.52

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yeah, thank you that so ches. Um they pay god yeah to add to pegas. Um I also want to give a big shout out to Nina and Nina was with me in Kal when we thought about this.

**** – (): 40:16.54

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): But yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 40:19.74

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Shelf idea we actually had a shelf in our little office. It was just a gay bedroom in my my apartment and we looked at my shelf and we were like a shelf they should be a shelf in every museum store. Dedicated to women in non-binary artists and then we’re like no half the shop half the shop half of every museum shop should have at least products by women and non-binary artists. Are you not sick and tired of seeing Monet scarves and has so malpad like come on all right? and.

**** – (): 40:43.37

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

**** – (): 40:50.70

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): So we thought about the idea and I actually found my notebook um a couple of nights ago that we you know I wrote jotted it down and then I found we run everything on basecamp and through the repent history group and me and Pega wrote and nina wrote to each other pegg I didn’t tell you this yet. But I saw it yesterday. Um, on the fourth of October last year we said, let’s do this and so again, what we said earlier? Yeah, it was the fourth of October last year and but you know we such a small team It’s just the 3 of us and um.

**** – (): 41:14.30

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, yeah, oh.

**** – (): 41:25.17

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): And it it takes time and so we put the call out there and it was wonderful. Um, and very overwhelming because we thought we would have not that we don’t believe in our audience we have an incredible audience but we didn’t know there will be so many ready-made products.

**** – (): 41:25.38

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Absolutely.

**** – (): 41:33.34

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): There are more.

**** – (): 41:40.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): It will be yes.

**** – (): 41:43.85

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): And we had an overwhelming response over the last couple of weeks. We’ve been putting. We’ve been we’ll taught ourselves how to create a catalog priceless oh goodness. So if you want to know what it looks behind the scenes it had been chaos because.

**** – (): 41:51.91

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, oh gone in so I know.

**** – (): 42:01.11

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): It’s a struggle.

**** – (): 42:01.51

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): You know we need to learn now how to to deal with like product management and quantities and pricing and it’s just been a lot It’s a very different story. Um, you know selling a few t-shirts in a few sizes and a few colors to now having hundreds hundreds hundreds. Four five hundred products

**** – (): 42:21.36

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): we received 500 we received yeah we received 500 something product listing from artists and and you know to comb through all of that and then to bring them and and let we had 11 categories alone.

**** – (): 42:27.39

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Love that.

**** – (): 42:27.78

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): It.

**** – (): 42:40.18

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): That we sent out to museums and so you know it’s It’s ah it’s been a learning experience. It’s been a great learning experience I would say because we thought yeah as lisel was saying we thought we’ll get some products.

**** – (): 42:46.55

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 42:58.59

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, we didn’t realize we’ll get 500 I think it’s even more than that I’m saying 500 but I feel like it’s more than that because I’m I’m going through the number in my head and I think it’s it’s actually higher than that and so so to you know comb through that and you know diesel did the whole curation.

**** – (): 43:04.68

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, the now.

**** – (): 43:18.68

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): The products and it’s it’s no easy task to to comb through them to go through them to short list them. Um, we had 4 rounds of products which lisel was going through and short listing and then and then she would share it with. Nina and I and then we would go in and provide our feedback but to put all of that and create a concept so that gym shops understand that it’s not just we’re not just giving you products. This is so much more than this product. It’s.

**** – (): 43:42.91

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 43:50.69

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, more. Yeah yeah.

**** – (): 43:54.59

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 43:56.23

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Ah, concept. It’s really empowering women and non-binary artists through this is now financially empowering them right? So so this is it’s a complete different territory in terms of how we’ve always provided support.

**** – (): 44:04.90

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 44:15.22

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Normally you know we’ve really focused on funding and services. But this is product support that we’re providing which is you know it’s financial. Sorry.

**** – (): 44:18.52

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yam.

**** – (): 44:23.67

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): An Innovative Also and it’s it’s extremely innovative and I think um, when I saw that I felt like I was very like like I’m this person when I see someone I’m like Wow that’s. Like when I love the work that you guys do I’ve always loved what Ka does.. There’s so many people like you know we know and I’m like I’m always looking out for what everyone’s doing and I’m like Wow they did this I’m like there’s this this this feeling Wow They really like I could feel that you’ve made a 10 here because um museum in the world. Ah, in the in the world of art is ah is a very prestigious um Aristocratic Um, very sacred word. Let’s say yes, gatekeeping sacred and all of that and I think with everything I think and I was speaking to cat the other a few week I months back and we were talking about like everything that we’re all doing.

**** – (): 45:03.30

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Network driven. So.

**** – (): 45:03.66

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Gatekeeping.

**** – (): 45:16.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): And I told her like you know I really feel that all of us the work that we are doing is really changing the needle I really and I truly truly I don’t know five years ten years maybe 20 years down the line. We won’t really understand the impact that the work you know we are all doing because we really are making a lot of change like. From a time where people couldn’t imagine to put their work any kind of work even if it was um, product in a museum. You made that happen at least for people to know that there is a possibility that they could make something and there is a way for you to reach to that point and. It’s never done before it’s nobody and I think we’re all trying to do that like even when we have access to things like you know we did this? Um, we just said such a good response to the hundred artworks book that we just did last month with Milan Art um and it just happened out of the blue because. I love making books I truly truly love and I was like you know we we do the magazine I love that. But you know I want people to experience artists in different um different aspects like you know these are hundred artworks these are hundred artists you you should look at these are creative entrepreneurs. You should look at or like. Just creating more and more and more and more different experiences. Access. We started the emerging artists award this month this week actually and we brought on Ashley Longshore for mentoring we brought on gallies for mentoring and I was like you know if I had this opportunity in the beginning of my career today I have this network.

**** – (): 46:52.29

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): That we’re always reaching out and we reached out to you know everyone and we like would you be able to pitch in. Would you be able to you know, contribute some way into this so that we use our network to give maximum value to people you know who are there and. That way I think we’re all making such a big difference like even little contribution makes such a big difference for like if I had that access in the beginning of my career I really would have skipped a few years of struggle but we make it happen for other people.

**** – (): 47:18.63

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): And I want to say congratulations to your beautiful book projects and your new emerging art awards like we it’s It’s amazing and I think.

**** – (): 47:23.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Thank you.

**** – (): 47:30.12

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, really, you really made me think now when you spoke about like access points and and making a difference slowly but surely and I think you know when you’re in in the the midstds of all the work. You know you don’t realize you’re in the eye of the storm right? But I think you really nail ahead.

**** – (): 47:39.55

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You don’t realize.

**** – (): 47:48.47

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Then hit the net one. The head is the it We create all these different entry points now between all of for artists to engage and to slip through the gates through these big past the gatekeepers and.

**** – (): 47:52.67

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 47:59.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 48:06.17

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): You know I I think yes, you’re absolutely write bit by bit little by little you know we we can just keep going and um it is.. It’s so nice. Actually I always love speaking to other people in our field because we all I’ve said it previously I think in another podcast but it always feels like if you do this. This activism work. You feel like you’re a bowl underground and you’re just digging digging digging digging digging digging digging in every now like yes and and then every now and again you bump into another mole and you’re like oh hi and then you get a bit of energy and you know we go on our own way again. But yes.

**** – (): 48:30.35

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, yes, what’s possible.

**** – (): 48:37.51

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And.

**** – (): 48:38.96

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Ah yeah yeah, you know and also what.

**** – (): 48:44.16

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Together We can change the narrative I’m I’m so true with your say.

**** – (): 48:48.70

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, but don’t forget to track the impact I think that’s really important. Don’t forget to track the impact the impact that you’re making because it’s really easy to see to think that you know, um, well, it’s not easy, but it’s.

**** – (): 48:52.90

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Me.

**** – (): 48:52.77

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 49:07.25

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): You know you’ll see the changes coming and you’re like oh my God change is coming but you forget that you have created that change that you have made that change and it’s really important because when you’re in a socially mission driven work. You need. To know the impacts you’re creating because it’s your passion because it’s you know as lisel said it’s the um fumes like of your passion and so to not run out of fume. You need to know the impact that not just for yourself. But to also showcase.

**** – (): 49:34.99

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 49:44.31

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): The impact that you’re making because that’s very very important and and and think collectively we have to do a better job at all of us tracking the impact that we’re making because. I Would also tell you that all of that impact can actually turn into a policy can turn into um you know, ah a law it can turn into because of you know how we’re driving the work.

**** – (): 50:06.80

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 50:06.84

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, from me.

**** – (): 50:15.96

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Change that we’re making and and it will get to you somewhere that can actually collectively we can put a policy forward. We can put a motion forward and I think that’s really important. So don’t forget to track your I mean where we we tend to at times. So um, so.

**** – (): 50:24.64

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Love that.

**** – (): 50:27.97

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): You see thank goodness for this financial and this numbers mine. You see? Thank Mr. Pega.

**** – (): 50:31.29

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, we all do? yeah yeah yeah, yes, you we need to hear more of more from you but that truly is I think it’s so wonderful. It’s um and I also sometimes.

**** – (): 50:39.55

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, yes.

**** – (): 50:45.20

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um.

**** – (): 50:47.87

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Think about these 2 things like sometimes like for me I never thought I’m unsittting again. India I just shared that it’s almost two years running arts, 2 hearts and I’ve not been in the us I never thought that I would be able to have access and friends and partnerships and collaborations in a business.

**** – (): 51:01.71

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): E.

**** – (): 51:06.64

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Not just within my own country but worldwide today I work with people from all parts of the world and for someone a little girl from India and a very small town I was born and brought up here that is it is. It’s not It’s not that um it’s not that common. It’s not that easy. And it wasn’t that obvious and then I realized okay for me today from where I’m standing. This may not seem big or this may not be such a big thing. Um, but you know if ah if the early younger version of me would have found this opportunity today. She would have jumped out of her seat. I literally said to my group like my team when we were putting the emerging artists award together like literally if I feel like if the younger version of me would have seen this award I would literally jump out of my seat because it was giving me an access to a network all parts of the world giving me a recognition.

**** – (): 51:58.10

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, yeah.

**** – (): 52:02.78

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Cash and support and all of this that literally I couldn’t I mean sitting in India in a small part of the world I literally wouldn’t have been able to get an access to and that means a lot I think it truly means a lot for all of us and like you know for someone like me, you’ve created these opportunities that you know I feel like oh wow um. I don’t think I can be there and we can all be like you can’t be here I can’t mean that South Africa you know all of those things how we’re like how we’re also globally connecting each other and giving a oh you want to seat at this table come join me and you’re saying oh you want to come here. You come join me and how magical is that.

**** – (): 52:33.90

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yes. Totally.

**** – (): 52:39.75

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Because there’s always enough space for everybody. There is enough space for everyone to make a change if you’re doing good in the world. There is space for you If you’re making a change. There is space for you. There’s never and it’s never too late. So don’t like I don’t.

**** – (): 52:41.22

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 52:47.96

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): He.

**** – (): 52:58.53

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And no one should shy away from thinking that a mission- driven cause is crowded or or that you know what am I going to do um I heard this in a context of social media towards artists that someone said you know if you.

**** – (): 53:06.91

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 53:16.85

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Ah, to artists like if your post gets um, hundred likes or something don’t think and you think oh, that’s really little put it in a context of a physical component. You had a store and hundred people just showed up to your store you would feel so overwhelmed.

**** – (): 53:24.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 53:28.35

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Fetchman.

**** – (): 53:31.39

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Or bombed.

**** – (): 53:35.35

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And I think this is also it applies to the work that we’re doing if we’re supporting 20 artists 30 artists. 40 artists it’s already 40 impacts in 40 different lives. So it’s not small. It’s no small change. It’s a huge change.

**** – (): 53:43.30

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): A little lady. Yeah, we are. That’s true.

**** – (): 53:55.35

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): You’re making in a lives of um 40 different families from across the world. So I don’t think we should ever underestimate the work we’re doing. You know we’re we’re not selling depends on um and no disrespect of someone who’s selling pens on Amazon but but I’m just saying like this is a mission-driven.

**** – (): 53:58.50

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah. I Love that.

**** – (): 54:09.65

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, yeah, yeah, it has purpose. What do you think has been the hardest thing building. You know this business providing this value. Um, the hardest part of it.

**** – (): 54:14.81

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Or the impact is different.

**** – (): 54:25.31

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): The time zones the time zones I swear that but it’s been a blessing and a curse really because of the time zones So Pega Nina is in front in kao.

**** – (): 54:26.87

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Um, I’m excited to hear from you. Both of you.

**** – (): 54:29.80

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): So yeah.

**** – (): 54:42.95

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Then I’m 6 hours behind her so when when Nina goes is the end of her day I come online and then I’m then thenpega 6 hours behind me. So actually we asked the bathton on so really, we are going twenty four seven so when Pega wakes.

**** – (): 54:53.80

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): So when.

**** – (): 54:59.46

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yeah, so.

**** – (): 55:02.48

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Gets to bed nina wakes up so there’s always 2 of us some but it’s it’s you know that is it’s been a challenge. Um, and then you from my side to and the also you know cash flow cash flow and this notion that we discussed it.

**** – (): 55:08.13

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Through.

**** – (): 55:15.57

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 55:20.45

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): At length earlier. Um, this idea that that people have that social enterprise sort of survives on fairy dust and sprinkles. Um, really infuriates me because I you know it it just yeah like I.

**** – (): 55:32.44

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh.

**** – (): 55:38.72

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yeah I think for me, that’s certainly been the the 2 biggest challenges and what’s also been sad for me and disheartening is to see that some of people that have been doing this work um have have had to stop doing this work to take full time jobs a lot of people right? We were so.

**** – (): 55:51.54

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, a lot of them. Yeah, a lot of them.

**** – (): 55:57.75

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Being in this work and you know I we are in Pegan are in a very grateful and privileged position where our partners are the primary providers. Um, so it’s given us the opportunity that we could you know when we don’t take salary more often than not. We. You know so I have to say that because people don’t always understand that. Um, oh they do understand they don’t know it. Sorry thank you.

**** – (): 56:18.47

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah I haven’t been paid 3 once in 3 years I have totally another job that pays I’m sorry I haven’t been paid once in 3 years I have another job that pays everything because I know it takes time.

**** – (): 56:31.78

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): You see and that’s that we all have to work on to change because it’s simply not sustainable right? and I’m so we exactly as a collective.

**** – (): 56:38.10

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, absolutely I.

**** – (): 56:44.91

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Um, you know so I I feel really passionate that we and and we can’t beg and I often have this conversation because we don’t want to have the financial burden on one person in the house that is neatly playing into the patriarchy like that is that is exactly not.

**** – (): 56:54.00

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, absolutely yeah, yes, yes, absolutely on point. Yeah.

**** – (): 57:03.24

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): The solution. So and it is um you know often my husband he is so supportive of the work we do but he that I do but he often says to me if you go and work for a not not for profit or a charity then I understand that there’s no money because you work for not.

**** – (): 57:19.87

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): My me. Yeah.

**** – (): 57:22.74

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Most most don not for profits pay your salary but you work 12 hours a day sometimes and then you like he’s just like please explain this to me, you’re fighting for women’s rights and you know, but but you know waste the the financial compensation. So I must say those 2 things have my biggest challenge.

**** – (): 57:34.81

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah e.

**** – (): 57:37.85

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, but we also understand like you know, um like we spoke about in the beginning that at least that’s what I believe in for me I feel like a I feel like you said as a business I have understood that you know.

**** – (): 57:42.43

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Over to you pega.

**** – (): 57:43.37

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): You know.

**** – (): 57:56.70

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, how small we were in whatever way we revenue numbers submissions. All of this distribution we were. We weren’t able to offer as much value to our artists. But the bigger we are getting the value of what we can give back. Is increasing and that has become a very bigno star for me im like how do I like so we’re we’re in conversation with one of the biggest authors in India and I like I really need to get through this because if we bring them. Um, how the imagine imagine the amount of ah giving back. We can do to the community that we are already having like. You know it’s like like how do we grow so that we can help other artists go our community grow other partners grow. So that really helps us and also I knowing that in the beginning like we spoke it takes someone you have to believe that we have to put in poor in the work and then worry. Okay, how we are bringing that as long as people like pe guys are around us I’m sure she’ll make sure that we are sustainable enough.

**** – (): 58:56.45

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yes.

**** – (): 58:58.94

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): I Think you guys are giving away too much credit. This is not This is not hard. No yeah, no I agree with so it’s both of you and I I think I think that one of the pain points agree with lisel I echo that as well. You know that the amount of.

**** – (): 59:01.90

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): No, not at all.

**** – (): 59:02.68

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, a.

**** – (): 59:18.22

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Hours that we put into the work is not necessarily translated to the financial gains. Um, and then and and then transferring that into our you know, family’s well-being so.

**** – (): 59:20.28

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, um, into yeah absolutely.

**** – (): 59:34.34

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, we are lucky that we have very supportive partners but going back to the whole patriarchy conversation. We want to get to a place where you know it’s it’s It’s equally if not more we are equally if not more providing.

**** – (): 59:40.91

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): May you can support ourselves.

**** – (): 59:53.80

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 59:53.92

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, for our financial wellbeing and our own financial aricy as well. Right? I think I think it’s very very important and then yeah and then it goes back to the whole notion of well how do we do it in a way that doesn’t come across that you know we’re taking too much or we’re doing this but it’s that. It’s equal part providing that impact and I thing as you as you said Charica the the value that we’re bringing also gets bigger with with the growth that we have so it feels like a 2 part thing that as we grow.

**** – (): 01:00:20.62

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 01:00:31.12

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): You cross.

**** – (): 01:00:33.53

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): The value grows and also the financial wellbeing of the social enterprise grows as well And so so I think you know we’ll get there I have no doubt that we’ll get there and and we’ll do it. It’s just when you’re in it. It’s really hard.

**** – (): 01:00:41.28

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 01:00:47.60

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Now. Yeah yeah.

**** – (): 01:00:51.77

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): To see it. It’s really hard to feel the impact. It’s really hard to feel the change and and when you’re in a pinch You think what the hell am I doing like what am I doing this what and then and.

**** – (): 01:00:55.83

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and another thing I think another thing to this ecosystem is also sometimes we overlook is. We’re also generating a lot of employment that wasn’t before and as if let’s say imagine all of us getting bigger and you know we’re making more impact and Bringing. Communities bigger and pick up like you know, um more magazines running means more employment for writers more employment for designers more employment for artists Elas Illustrators Editors Copywriters exhibition designers curators and it’s like how we’re all coming like impact like. If I see now in the grander scheme of things. Um I feel like yeah if we keep doing this work. We All keep doing this but work um little little drops in the ocean. But once it’s going to come together. It’s like it’s it’s going to be another world for sure.

**** – (): 01:01:52.51

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yeah, and I think we need to do strategic.

**** – (): 01:01:53.56

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): That’s true and we also um, we have to prove that a social enterprise can be sustainable. There’s just not enough models out there at the moment especially in this space like we’ve chosen 2 of the hardest things that aren’t industry.

**** – (): 01:01:59.32

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 01:02:10.74

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Ah, and yeah, um.

**** – (): 01:02:11.44

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): And gender equality and put them together but Pega and I don’t doubt for a minute that this can be a sustainable social enterprise like we really believe it and we will not give up until it is.

**** – (): 01:02:17.41

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

**** – (): 01:02:29.20

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, likewise I’m so good you and you’re already doing amazing work I think that we all would agree. Everyone who’s listening to this podcast right now I’m sure they’ve heard about what you do, they’ve seen your work and I think um, we all I think this conversation is.

**** – (): 01:02:29.32

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Really.

**** – (): 01:02:30.68

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Yes, yes.

**** – (): 01:02:46.00

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Is not easy I think a lot of people would truly hold themselves back. But I think we’ve done a great job putting our sites but also like I think it’s it’s easier for all of us once you know when we have these difficult conversations where where we come together and think okay, how do we all come together to make this. Better for all of us for all of us. How do we get? How do we get stronger from here. How do we? Um, you know somebody has to make that Sacrifice. We’re taking I think like I so I feel so good when so many other artists like this start something because I truly know now that you know. I Have to put back So Many of my creative dreams just because I equally feel so much about this because I feel like okay I’m going to talk on my my own creative dreams between this this and it’s like you know we’re all, um, how do I say this? it’s. It’s a conversation and it’s an encouragement. We all need again and again.

**** – (): 01:03:45.42

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): So true. Absolutely couldn’t agree more.

**** – (): 01:03:48.76

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I cannot believe it’s already been an hour and we’ve been. You know it’s it. It feels like the time has flown by but I’m not going to hold you back. But I will bring you back because we’ll keep having these conversations. So thank you so much. Both of you for your time.

**** – (): 01:03:49.30

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): That’s right, that’s veryture then.

**** – (): 01:03:53.24

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): This.

**** – (): 01:04:01.67

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Fantastic.

**** – (): 01:04:02.82

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And well we’d love you for that? Yeah, thank you for having us So this is really lovely.

**** – (): 01:04:06.24

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Thank you Very very much.

**** – (): 01:04:11.24

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): But before I let you go? What are you working? Is there something exciting that you want to share with us. Um that our listeners could or you yes, please would you share with us.

**** – (): 01:04:18.74

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, pretty exciting is coming stay tuned. Yeah, um, it’s It’s very much in the vein of bringing more artists into museum shops and so stay tuned on that we have big, big big plans for that.

**** – (): 01:04:20.84

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Fifth.

**** – (): 01:04:29.32

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Wow.

**** – (): 01:04:37.60

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): And we want our impact to really grow in that space because we really truly believe in empowering women and non-binary artists financially as well as within their careers. So this is something that we’re.

**** – (): 01:04:48.32

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah.

**** – (): 01:04:53.87

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Super excited and we’re really thinking of scaling the work that we are doing in terms of creating the Acar rising shelf into museums.

**** – (): 01:05:00.46

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh Wow! What about you lies like.

**** – (): 01:05:03.69

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Absolutely also for we have our um, our database and platform so our weeklyright.com we launched that.

**** – (): 01:05:12.70

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Yeah, yeah.

**** – (): 01:05:16.78

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): A year ago and it’s growing tremendously and it’s a wonderful resource where you can find everything from call for art exhibitions articles. Um.

**** – (): 01:05:24.27

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): So.

**** – (): 01:05:29.28

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Artists interviews anything So that’s really something that we keep growing keep growing Inna’s really take ownership of that and she’s doing an amazing job. So that’s ourwelyrisce dot com and then lastly our database and directory for Womenarti wear are the womenartus dot Com um at the moment.

**** – (): 01:05:38.53

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Okay.

**** – (): 01:05:47.75

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): We are working on the the tech capabilities of that for example soon. Paid members would be able to change and update their profiles because we realize that of course artists are ever evolving there.

**** – (): 01:05:58.29

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): New.

**** – (): 01:06:01.52

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Is changing and at the moment we manually update these things for artists. But soon that would be um, a member log in profile and our dream really with with what while we call where the woman artist Wawa is that.

**** – (): 01:06:06.94

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Saw that? yes.

**** – (): 01:06:16.30

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): It is it really answers this question if you say where are the women artists here are the women artists and it will always be that be this open database a legacy project that we hope that in years to come. We can have 102 3 4 500000 artists from across the world on this.

**** – (): 01:06:21.85

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Womenatis.

**** – (): 01:06:31.93

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): I Am sure that would happen.

**** – (): 01:06:34.93

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Faith based and so that’s that’s our babies and yeah, we are very excited and passionate about all all the babies.

**** – (): 01:06:42.72

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Are excited. Yeah.

**** – (): 01:06:43.66

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Oh my God I am so proud of you and I’m so excited for everything that you do and for sure I’ll be here cheering for both of you and everything you do.

**** – (): 01:06:54.73

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Thank you so much.

**** – (): 01:06:55.39

**** – (): charukaarora

**** – (): Thank you so much for your time and I’ll hope I see see you both again. Hopefully in real person in India or in the us or in Canada in South Africa ah yes yes, thank you, thank you? You don’t have to go.

**** – (): 01:07:02.99

**** – (): Pegah Kargar

**** – (): Um, yeah pointer I Love that Thank you so much again. Take care bye.

**** – (): 01:07:03.34

**** – (): Liezel

**** – (): Yay come and visit charuka. Thank you for your Time.

About The Guest(s): Liezel Strauss and Pegah Kargar are the co-founders of Repaint History, an organization that aims to challenge the gender gap in the art world and empower women and non-binary artists. They are passionate about creating opportunities for underrepresented artists and advocating for gender equality in the arts.

Summary: Liezel and Pegah discuss their journey of merging their social enterprises, Repaint History and Odd Girl Rising, to create a stronger platform for supporting women and non-binary artists. They share their personal experiences of growing up in cultures that had gender inequalities and how that influenced their mission to support women in the arts. They also discuss the importance of financial sustainability for social enterprises and the need to change the perception that art should be free. The conversation highlights the impact they are making in the art world and the value of artists as entrepreneurs. They emphasize the need for collective efforts to track and showcase the impact of social enterprises and the importance of creating opportunities for artists to thrive.

Key Takeaways:

• The merger of Repaint History and Odd Girl Rising has allowed Liezel and Pegah to combine their strengths and create a more impactful platform for supporting women and non-binary artists.
• Financial sustainability is crucial for social enterprises to continue their work and create meaningful change.
• The art world needs to recognize the value of artists’ work and compensate them fairly for their contributions.
• Artists are entrepreneurs in their own right and need to approach their careers with a business mindset.
• The perception that art should be free needs to change, and artists should be compensated for their work and contributions.
• Social enterprises have the power to create change and should track and showcase their impact to drive policy and systemic change.
• Collaboration and collective efforts are essential in creating a supportive ecosystem for artists and empowering underrepresented communities.

Quotes:

• “As long as women are not equal, we have no care. We will keep doing this work as feverishly and as loud as possible.” – Liezel Strauss
• “The art world needs to understand that artists are entrepreneurs in their own right.” – Pegah Kargar
• “We have to prove that a social enterprise can be sustainable. There’s just not enough models out there at the moment.” – Liezel Strauss
• “We’re all, how do I say this? It’s a conversation and it’s an encouragement. We all need again and again.” – Charuka Arora
• “There’s always enough space for everybody. There is enough space for everyone to make a change if you’re doing good in the world.” – Pegah Kargar

Charuka Arora is the founder of the Arts to Hearts Project and Host of the Arts to Hearts Podcast. She is also an acclaimed Indian artist known for her contemporary embellished paintings. Her unique blend of gouache, collage, embroidery, painting, and drawing explores the intersection of art, culture, heritage, and womanhood. Through her work, she tells stories of female strength and encapsulates them in pieces that can be treasured for generations.

Charuka’s work draws inspiration from Hindu mythology, recognizing women as vessels of Shakti, the cosmic energy. She beautifully portrays powerful goddesses like Durga Maa riding a tiger or lion, symbolizing their unlimited power to protect virtue and combat evil.

Through her art, Charuka invites us into the world of women, showcasing their beauty, strength, and resilience. Her creations not only exhibit exceptional talent but also serve as an inspiration and a symbol of hope for those challenging societal norms.

Arts to Hearts Podcast is a show delving into the lives and passions of renowned artists. From running creative businesses and studio art practices to cultivating a successful mindset, Charuka Arora engages in heartfelt conversations with her guests. Experience your personal happy hour with your favorite artists, right in your studio.

Through candid discussions, Charuka and her guests reveal the joys and challenges of a vibrant creative life, both within and beyond our studios. Get ready to be inspired and uplifted as you tune in.

Liezel Strauss

Liezel Strauss is a South African/British social entrepreneur. She co-founded Subject Matter, one of the the first online art galleries in 2011. In 2018 she launched ArtGirlRising in support of female artists. In 2019 Liezel was chosen to be 1 of 9 innovators to represent the UN Women ‘Impossible to Ignore’ campaign and she was named one of the UN Women’s top 100 female innovators worldwide. In 2020 Liezel co-founded Where Are The Women Artists? (WATWA) A database and open directory for women artists & she is the co-founder of the Fair Art 2030 Pledge.

Pegah Kargar

Iranian/Canadian Pegah Kargar founded Repaint History in 2018 after working in the financial industry for over a decade. She has been highlighted and profiled as a key advocate for female artists and has championed their work to be acquired and/or represented by museums and galleries across the world. In partnership with 8 other leading organizations she has launched the Fair Art 2030 initiative, a pledge project for museums and galleries to address gender equality and race representation by 2030.

In this week’s podcast, we have two phenomenal women who have been working tirelessly since years to make sure that underrepresented artists in the art world can be heard and seen. Liezel Strauss and Pegah Kargar are kind enough to join us in this episode to share their insights on running a social enterprise for underrepresented artists and how difficult it is to maintain financial stability as entrepreneurs in the art world.

Being from South Africa and Iran respectively, both Liezel and Pegah’s cultural background played a massive role in making them empathize towards the discrimination of female and non-binary artists. However, unlike most people, they both decided to take adequate steps to remedy that. In this podcast, they talk about everything from collaborating with each other to the challenges of running a sustainable business to the challenges that artists in general face in the art world.

Collaborating with each other

It all began during COVID, when Liezel and Pegah started to exchange messages online. As their friendship progressed from messages to finally chatting on video calls, they realized how similar their paths were. Pegah had just started her own merchandises of t-shirts with names of female artists, and Liezel had also recently began to explore the same idea. Since they had very similar visions, they decided to combine their super powers and worked through every time zone that came in their way. With Liezel’s expertise, and Pegah’s finance background, they were able to merge their brands into Repaint History Group and start their enterprise.

Due to their years of work in the industry, Liezel and Pagah had already created a community of museum shops that had purchased their products. The next step was to conceive an idea that took things to another level. That is when the idea of Art Girl Rising Shelf came to be where the artists had an opportunity to thrive in terms of carving a space for themselves in museum shops. Both these women decided that there would be a shelf in every art museum, which would be dedicated to female and non-binary artists. And so they put the call out there, and were overwhelmed with the response from the artists as they received around 500 product listing from artists.

If you want to know what it looks behind the scenes, it had been chaos.

Liezel Strauss – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e41

Was it it easy for Liezel and Pegah? Absolutely not. In the midst of it all, both of them have had to learn how to deal with product management, quantities and pricing. While they were able to manage everything, it took these women a lot of time and effort before they were able to execute it all. But no business is without struggles, and in the end, what matters is how you come out the other end. Liezel and Pegah faced their challenges head-on and passed this test with flying colors! It’s been a year since they started working on this joint project, and they are already thinking about their next step.

As long as women are not equal, we have nothing to apologize for the work that we do.

Liezel Strauss – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e41

Running a business that’s also financially sustainable

Liezel and Pegah have been running their social enterprise along with their home care and parental duties, something which is not easy at all. They both acknowledge their privilege of not being the primary the providers of their families, and that has given them the flexibility of working long hours on their project without receiving the financial benefits. However, it still means that they have to figure out a way to create financial sustainability so that their ability to close the gender gap in the industry is not compromised.

We want our impact to really grow in that space because we really truly believe in empowering women and non-binary artists financially as well as within their careers.

Pegah Kargar- Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e41

Pegah and Liezel admit that it can be hard to be understood on the industry, as their enterprise is not a not-for-profit organization. However, this term can sometimes confuse the consumers and the audience. People need to realize that in order for a social enterprise to be sustainable, it needs to make enough profit to keep afloat, something that is interconnected with the support it can lend to the struggling underrepresented artists.

Social entrepreneurship does not necessarily mean having no revenue, it means you have to have a sustainable revenue.

Pegah Kargar – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e41

The ‘artist’ dilemma

Liezel and Pegah touch on a subject that’s on every artists mind; how come art is not seen as ‘real work’? It seems that for artists, getting paid is a tricky business and they have to convince their clients that, they too, deserve compensation for their time and work.

They assume it needs to be for free if you ask an artist to do a painting.

Pegah Kargar – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e41

Liezel and Pegah are all too familiar with the clients bargaining for an art piece or assuming that an artist must not be putting in the work which warrants such a payment. As they both have expanded their social enterprise, they have had to put in the work to show organizations what they have done and their track record. No one in the art world has gotten what they have for free.

The rest of the world also views art as frivolous and not a necessity.

Liezel Strauss – Arts to Hearts Podcast s03e41

However, this notion harms the artist community, especially the ones who are already struggling, and it needs to change. This predicament is also directly related to Liezel and Pegah’s experience of running their enterprise where they still struggle to create that stability in terms of finances, even if it means not taking salaries for themselves most of the times.

Despite the many hurdles Liezel and Pegah had to cross, they are very much hopeful and ambitious about their joint venture, which they also jokingly call as a ‘marriage’. For them, it isn’t their financial gains that drives them, but the impact they make. Slowly, but surely, their work is indeed creating the waves they hoped it would. Liezel and Pegah are also proving that collaborations can do wonders, especially in the art world. Their initiative is breaking down barriers and providing economic empowerment for artists who need it the most. We wish Liezel and Pegah the best of luck for their plans ahead. You can support their venture at Repaint History Group and check out their open directory for women artists called Where Are The Women Artists.