00:19.24

charukaarora

But do we want to begin I have something in my mind but you begin.

00:21.90

kim

Well, we could talk about my first of all I’m late to the art world I’m in I’m mid 50 s so I did not start young so there’s the first thing I’m a mother artist and my identity is drawn from motherhood and.

00:27.60

charukaarora

Um, no okay yet. Yes.

00:39.10

kim

Wife domestic events So that’s where I draw my inspiration from I’m also a foster parent and so we could talk about that as well and just the difficulties of doing art as a mother and how women tend to not be recognized as prominently as men in the art world. Specifically I think mothers.

00:57.74

charukaarora

Yeah, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ah perfect. Let’s yes we I think something that when I read about you know I was looking at your work and your journey and now things that you’ve also mentioned.

00:58.97

kim

Also and the difficulty of being a mom and a professional artist at the same time. So those kind of things All those are good. But.

01:12.30

kim

Is.

01:15.59

charukaarora

You know something that I feel um I really found interesting about you your work. Your journey was 2 words came to me freedom and experimentation I really really really liked um

01:28.00

kim

Yes.

01:34.70

charukaarora

How your experimentation also shows so much of freedom like even with the book that you’re Creating. It’s like like it. It shows that you’re not afraid to get Messy. You’re not if afraid to um, you know, fail or succeed or um, you know, look a certain way. Do a certain way like. And there’s so much of freedom in that right? Do do do you want to start from there.

01:56.00

kim

Right? right? right? Oh yeah, like my outfit today. Um no I can’t in fact, um, you know my journey is one that um I came into this late and I never took an art class completely self-taught.

02:06.91

charukaarora

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

02:11.72

kim

And so I didn’t know what the rules rules were what the art rules were and my art tools that I started with were just found objects around the house and I still use them I use like a spatula to paint with I use chopsticks I use you know, just whatever’s around. It’s true and if you watch any of my reels on Instagram you can see.

02:25.50

charukaarora

Ah, yeah, yes, yes, okay.

02:30.20

kim

Like I use drywall tape I just made one today where I’m using drywall tape. It’s paper with little holes in it. So I just use whatever’s around the house and because kind of started because as a mother I’m at home and you can’t leave because your children are here and so you just kind of grab whatever you have and so.

02:40.38

charukaarora

Um, yeah, yeah, what you have.

02:48.36

kim

Yes, and so that’s where experimentation comes in because you know creativity is the mother of invention. It’s probably also the mother of experimentation because um, you know I know I want to make art I know I want to be creative. Well, what do I have and so much like a recipe I’m just kind of throwing things in there and I think that because of that.

03:08.29

kim

I Just knew I wanted to create and so then there’s not that fear of failure because making was not was my goal not making to sell making to please somebody. Um, and you know my children frequently were making right along with me and at first you know I was the girl scout Troop leader.

03:15.20

charukaarora

Are.

03:26.76

kim

Was the pta mom um, we were making Halloween things and you know things for the holidays I was the religious school teacher. Um, and so at first it was just more crafty than art and so I think you know coming up through that avenue um.

03:29.41

charukaarora

Things. Yeah. Yes, Yes, yeah, yeah, yes I like that yeah you want to cut something up, get that cisor in nines.

03:44.46

kim

When you’re when you’re crafty. You don’t really care if it’s messy. You don’t care if it’s good. You don’t care what it is and um, yes, you just do it and so for years and years and years and years that was my art was just this crafty stuff and um I never thought I was really any better than anybody else I mean.

03:55.31

charukaarora

Yeah, so cut. Yeah, yeah.

04:04.17

kim

I Got the glitter glue out I got the hot glue gun out you know? and so um, so at that just that was my life and it was very child centric and I was a foster mother same thing and you know I just loved doing arts and crafts and so um, what happened was my children aged at they.

04:23.80

charukaarora

How big they are how big are your children today. Oh wow, you look like 16 Wow.

04:23.68

kim

You know they became adults and my foster. What what they’re they’re well they are in their twenty s and my my yes my youngest. Oh thank you? No I’m I’m 55 so um and my youngest foster daughter is now nineteen so they’re.

04:40.93

charukaarora

Oh wow.

04:43.16

kim

They’re old enough now that they don’t need Mama’s mush and so you know about two and a half years ago um it was during covid actually my one of my daughters was home. She was home from school because she came home from school during covid because their school had gone online from from university and so um.

04:48.77

charukaarora

Okay.

04:58.86

charukaarora

Um, yeah.

05:02.96

kim

She I was just kind of dabbling around in mixed media and she said let’s put you on Instagram and she’s like this is pretty good so she just kind of threw me on Instagram and um I just kind of like every day I would make something and she put on Instagram and I just kind of kept getting better.

05:04.69

charukaarora

Okay.

05:11.28

charukaarora

Okay.

05:21.58

kim

And I got more followers and it was just extremely organic how it happened yes and I didn’t you know? um there wasn’t any Yes, there wasn’t any, um you know, follow me for you know I just I just put myself out there and so again I think that the freedom aspect of it was I didn’t have any.

05:24.51

charukaarora

Oh you’re doing extremely well on Instagram better than sixteen year olds ah ah yeah

05:40.41

charukaarora

Oh yeah.

05:41.63

kim

Expectations I didn’t have any I mean if I had 1 follower fine if I had 2 followers and it shocked me I had like 10000 followers the first year and it was I was completely flabbergasted I was like what is this? Um, and so I think there’s 2 things freedom number one just to create.

05:49.80

charukaarora

Brow.

05:59.90

kim

But also freedom because I was now able to do spend more time with my art and do do more things with my art because my children were older now and like back in the day I used to create in the kitchen and when dinner time came I had to put it all away. So.

06:04.45

charukaarora

Yeah. Yeah, okay.

06:17.52

kim

Now I’m creating how to put it away I got to make dinner right? Well now I don’t necessarily have to make dinner. It’s just my husband and he can Yes, he can eat frozen food but and you know the other kids yes and they can my children like ah my.

06:21.54

charukaarora

Yes, you should ask for.

06:30.64

charukaarora

Ah, no children can come over and cook you sometimes.

06:36.44

kim

Um, my both my daughters today went not to dinner for themselves tonight and you know ah I can make collages so my my time my time has been freed up and I can make more of a mess and I don’t I don’t care anymore whether or not I have a hot meal on the table does that make sense. So um.

06:40.55

charukaarora

No Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, yes, but you know for me? Yes, but you know for me I’m very interested. You said you came late into the game and for me premination for you for your journey. All also is looking like be bigger than your work right now like.

06:55.23

kim

And it has been extremely liberating. Yeah. 11.

07:08.52

kim

Yeah, well okay, ah I started actually making art art like two years ago probably two years ago yeah but I’ve always been a crafter and even as a kid I did crafts I mean I’ve always I’ve always done it. But.

07:08.96

charukaarora

When when did you start making art. Let’s talk about that. What was ah yes, ah dad 2 years okay yeah oh yeah I get that.

07:24.98

kim

But fine art like two years ago

07:27.22

charukaarora

Okay, and did you have like any previous job or um, so called job before this all of this.

07:33.52

kim

Well um I went to school to be a teacher. So I I am a former school teacher. But I taught my degrees in biology and early childhood education. Yes, so I’m a former biology middle school teacher. So very far off that so I’m one of these people that has these.

07:36.20

charukaarora

Okay, oh my goodness. Oh Wow Yeah, yeah, That’s very nice. Yeah yeah, that is what I’m saying like you know experimentation and freedom like.

07:50.98

kim

You know, talents in many different areas. But um, but no I’ve never I’ve never taken I’ve never taken 1 art class not in high school not in college. Never um so and.

08:04.64

charukaarora

I Think a lot of times we as you know people feel stuck um due to where we are what we’ve become. Okay you you were a school teacher where you were teaching in a job. Ah, you should keep doing that. Why do you need to change your course. Um, okay, or like or like you know or.

08:08.92

kim

Isn’t.

08:14.19

kim

Over. Right? I.

08:23.97

charukaarora

Taking that extra hedge or like you know, leaving those fears behind and actually doing something about it and then um you I mean there are so many people who um, in their mid 50 s fifty s sixty s like they wouldn’t find the courage to start something even if they’re passionate about it like.

08:37.49

kim

Right? right? right? right.

08:41.16

charukaarora

Because you know oh they don’t have the strength or like I don’t know everybody would have their own reasons but no matter where we reason our reasons fall into our place in life and age and everything we all like we have those years and it is unsafe. It feels risk it feels vulnerable. It feels scary.

08:47.48

kim

Um, over.

08:57.70

kim

It does. Yeah, it does Yes, yes and you have to give yourself permission. Yeah, you have to give yourself permission to do it and that was my biggest thing and the other thing I had to overcome was imposter. Syndrome.

08:59.74

charukaarora

To you know, push yourself even if you don’t are not chasing any kind of goal like let’s talk about that shift. Yes.

09:13.99

charukaarora

Excuse. Okay.

09:15.44

kim

Because when I first started I thought oh I’m I’m not good. You know, um how can I be getting followers and because who am I and I had to get over that and um and I am over that now. It took me a while but um, but yeah I had to give myself permission and I actually I went to each of my children and I said.

09:22.91

charukaarora

Yes, as.

09:34.93

kim

Is it okay that I’m spending all this time making this art and of course they all said yes, make your art. You know do it but you know because that mother that mother guilt is very strong and but you know once I once I realize that I can do it I’m good I’m okay spending this amount of time doing it I feel like I banked my hours.

09:39.40

charukaarora

Yeah.

09:54.80

kim

Early in their childhood. You know I Really do that that you know I made my deposits I’m now able to and they’re actually they’re actually very supportive and they’re very happy for me that I’m doing what I’m doing and I’m just very joyous about it I mean you can just see I love it. So it’s also.

09:58.55

charukaarora

Um, yeah, yeah.

10:09.52

charukaarora

Yes, yes.

10:12.54

kim

I’m so prolific I don’t know if you notice but I make art constantly. Um and I post every day. Yeah, sometimes twice a day 3 times a day I can’t help it I just keep making and I think that I’m prolific because I have so many ideas and I just can’t I mean like today.

10:15.30

charukaarora

Really.

10:28.83

charukaarora

Um, yeah.

10:31.93

kim

I could have made probably 5 reels today. Ah but I didn’t because I thought people people are going to get so sick of me making these reels. So I think Emily just made 2 Ah, but um I just have so many ideas so many things I want to do. It’s like I feel like I’m catching up you know? So yeah.

10:46.31

charukaarora

Yeah, you have you feel like you’re at that stage that you wanted to do all of these things for so far too long and you find like okay I’ve got this moment and I want to make the most of it.

10:54.50

kim

Yes, right, right? and I’m not doing it for I meant it for money I’m not doing it for Prestige I’m doing it for myself and I kind of feel like if that comes along then you know that’s okay and that actually is my current problem right now is um.

11:00.28

charukaarora

Um, yeah, yeah, great. Yeah yeah.

11:11.63

kim

I I have been asked to do some things and I really don’t know you know where or where how I’m going to do it. So I mean that’s a good problem to have I guess right? So yeah, yeah.

11:18.32

charukaarora

Yes, absolutely and those problems I think come from every stage of life like you don’t know how to work things and then you eventually you know like it’s like you’re transitioning into this new shape and farm and you learn more about and you get better at it.

11:29.25

kim

Right. Right? Yes, It’s written.

11:36.00

charukaarora

But how like do you have any like what are your? what are your inhibitions. What are your fears. So specifically when you started coming on Instagram did you have any like like what people are going to think or I’m um, ah like did you have any of those things.

11:50.12

kim

Yes, yeah before yes before Instagram I was not on social media at all. No Facebook no Twitter no nothing and if you even now I’m still trepidacious like I didn’t have my face on Instagram until maybe six months ago um I had

11:54.26

charukaarora

Yes.

12:07.15

kim

Um, one of my art pieces was my face and when I originally came on I had a fake name I had a fake name and a fake face. Yes I was Susan Baer that was my name and because Susan is my mill name and um.

12:12.36

charukaarora

Oh wow.

12:21.99

kim

I just happened to have a picture of a teddy bear and I thought okay I’m just gonna be Susan Bear and so the first year of me being on Instagram I was Susan Bear and I did not change my name to Kim Hamburg until after I got like 10000 followers. So if you followed me before you know the first year I was Susan Bear and and I made that switch and I thought I hope people aren’t confused but um, yeah so I didn’t even use my real name because I was afraid that a couple of reasons. First of all I am a foster parent and you do have to protect the anonymity of your foster kids and some of the parents are not too friendly and um.

12:40.29

charukaarora

Who says now.

12:48.79

charukaarora

Yeah, um.

12:59.60

kim

So I waited until my old. The youngest was eighteen years old and that’s when I put my face and my name out there because at that point I realized um, it’s okay, they’re 18 because before that you know you’re in the court system and you’re not really supposed to post anything on social media and I was just trying to be really careful. So that’s part of it. But also social media scared me because I didn’t I hadn’t been out there and I’m still trepidaceious and I just joined Facebook like two weeks ago and the only reason I did it. The only reason I did it was because I taught a class on collage master summit I don’t know who saw that but but as part of the class.

13:25.14

charukaarora

Um, oh.

13:36.70

kim

Students we had their our own Facebook group on Facebook our own private group on Facebook so I had to join Facebook so I’m giving you the so I reluctantly I have joined Facebook now so it has forced me to do things I didn’t want to do I’m learning technology I have I’m sitting here with a mac.

13:51.61

charukaarora

Yes.

13:55.19

kim

Ah, laptop I have learned the Mac computer I have who would know that I would have a laptop I’m learning photoshop I’m learning to edit my own photos I tried so hard not to learn to do it I tried so hard and then um, it’s just I keep getting more and more. Um.

13:58.60

charukaarora

Wow. Ah, oh Wow you are so inpiring I love that. But.

14:14.20

charukaarora

Yes.

14:14.54

kim

And which is is a good thing by the way. Ah you know magazines are asking for my art and you have to have a 300 dpi and you have to have along and there’s other other projects that I’m doing and they’re asking for my art and it has to be you know? and so I realized I better learn how to do this. So um.

14:21.40

charukaarora

Um, yes.

14:32.17

kim

My one of my daughters who she’s actually in graduate school for museum exhibition and design. She’s helping me. So yeah, yes, she’s in Philadelphia. Yeah, she’s really good. She also knows like vector works. She knows photoshop me she knows all the stuff so whoever hires her soon will be very fortunate to have her.

14:38.24

charukaarora

Oh Wow How is that so nice of ah.

14:51.58

kim

Yeah, but she’s helping me quite a bit I know but it’s it’s weird because if you would to ask me like um, you know, even three four years ago would I be in this spot I would have said no you know no I mean I’m even an I’m even a um influencer now I have spot I have somebody at that I’m um.

14:52.30

charukaarora

Ah, look at you being the mother also. Ah.

15:11.34

kim

Sponsoring or there they give me stuff free stuff and I make reels for them. Yes, who would a known. So yeah.

15:14.73

charukaarora

So you’ve kinded how I stood like theres this whole new world that has like come your way and how much un shedding of your own beliefs. How much unshardding of your own beliefs people around you um, took.

15:22.29

kim

Um, it has completely opened. Yeah and am I ready I don’t know.

15:34.42

charukaarora

That took for you to really like grab these these opportunities and like be this person.

15:37.41

kim

Well um I think I I mean I’m still the same I think that the thing that has changed most about me is um I’ve stopped caring about um you know like I used to be just a very ah you know Helicopter Mom You know.

15:50.40

charukaarora

Peeping.

15:54.48

kim

Okay, kids do you have your lunch? Do you have your you know socks you know? and um I mean I’ll give you an example, my daughter. My daughter who is 20 she she just had a birthday. She’s 26 she was turned 26 this is the one that’s in Philadelphia in graduate school and prior to this year every year for kids birthdays I did the care package and I would have had.

15:58.98

charukaarora

Yeah, yeah.

16:04.66

charukaarora

Okay.

16:13.60

kim

Ah, cake delivered and I would have had balloons I just venmo to her some cash for her birthday this year that’s all I did ah and um I said.

16:23.11

charukaarora

Um, yeah, hey.

16:26.30

kim

I’m so sorry I’m busy I’ve got this podcast I’ve got this class I’ve got the and I listed all the stuff I’m doing I said here’s some catch ah and that is so and so that is how I have changed I mean and I would have been the kind that would have you know called her and sang your happy birthday and you know Nope Nope Just oh hey.

16:35.40

charukaarora

Food.

16:45.24

kim

Birthday I sent you some cash but ah ah so it’s not she was actually okay with it I mean the thing is my children. Thank goodness they all understand that this is for me and um, important to me and they see how much joy it brings me and they see the success.

16:46.39

charukaarora

What did he say.

16:56.26

charukaarora

Important to you.

17:03.49

charukaarora

Yeah, um.

17:04.98

kim

The success that I’m getting to I think if I weren’t getting so much success. They might think I was a little wacky but they actually do see the success that I’m getting and um, yeah, they’re okay with it. Um, you know so that’s a difference I probably wouldn’t be doing it as.

17:08.26

charukaarora

Yeah. Would you keep doing this even if it wasn’t for the success that you’re getting.

17:21.82

kim

Prolific I wouldn’t be doing as much but I would still be doing it. Yes, um I might not be doing you know three reels a day I might just be doing one but you know, but yeah I would still do it I Love it I Love it.

17:22.88

charukaarora

Um, and.

17:28.51

charukaarora

Yeah, okay and what what do you? Love the most about you know, getting into this new phase is life now.

17:39.24

kim

Well, it’s um I don’t know it’s just like a big creative relief I don’t know it’s like that. Um you know I was a stay-at home mom for I don’t know 25 years I don’t know you know between kids and foster kids and all this kind of so a long time and um.

17:48.15

charukaarora

Caught.

17:53.99

kim

Found that very fulfilling I really enjoyed it obviously I was also a volunteer at their schools I volunteered everywhere and that was also fulfilling but the creative side of me, you know you can’t be too creative being a mom I mean how many times how many ways can you cut up a sandwich you know or. A carrot in a lunch box. Um, but it was funny because even during all that time I had art ideas in my head and I remember that my the daughter that’s in Philadelphia that’s the museum major. She did take some art classes and every time an art assignment would come up for her. I would say what’s your art assignment and I would give her just rattle off like 50 ideas for her to do and she’d say stop stop don’t stop I would get really excited at all of her and I would like want to live vicariously through her art assignments. You know? Um, so I had I had ideas in the back of my mind and I kind of knew that.

18:31.96

charukaarora

You’d be safe. Maybe.

18:37.91

charukaarora

I.

18:50.92

kim

Um, that would be what I would be doing after I had some free time I just didn’t exactly know what it was going to be I didn’t know how it was going to work you know, um, and so I kind of knew That’s what I was going to do but I just I didn’t I didn’t ever think it was going to be this big I didn’t ever think that I had talent.

18:53.58

charukaarora

Yeah.

19:09.29

kim

I Just thought it would be something I would just do because you know a hobby. Yeah yeah, but I am finding too though. Go ahead. Well I was just gonna say I am finding too though that one of the other things I like about it though is it’s very therapeutic. Um, it’s.

19:12.87

charukaarora

Um, it brought you to right? Yeah, what was your real sorry go ahead complete.

19:25.24

charukaarora

Yeah, absolutely.

19:27.63

kim

It’s like you always have therapy with yourself every single day because I also have found that I’m an intuitive artist and so I work intuitively I don’t have a sketchbook or anything I just kind of sit down and whatever I’m thinking or feeling just kind of comes out on the page and so a lot of my work is is about motherhood domestic events. Um, you know women all those kinds of things and it’s it’s basically it’s a very authentic retelling of who I am and if you look at my art. Um I think that’s 1 reason why people are drawn to it is because you can tell that it’s authentic and that it’s not just you know me finding a page and slapping it on I mean. It’s very intentional and um, you can and if you see my work over time. There’s almost, there’s themes that run through my work. You know? So um and that in that way. It’s very therapeutic for me because I kind of work out my issues through the art. You know so.

20:07.20

charukaarora

Yeah.

20:23.71

charukaarora

Ah, isn’t that a great way. Yeah, okay tell me something how what was your take I’m sure there must be a moment where you think like okay you were having fun. You started taking a leap you started experimenting.

20:25.93

kim

Yeah, yeah, it’s really good.

20:37.66

kim

Oval. Yes.

20:41.51

charukaarora

What when you started seeing like people started showing interest in your work your work um is very popular on social media. You’ve had you have great engagement like you know you make these reels for people and you know how people engage with you.

20:56.67

kim

Yes, and they buy my work. That’s the other thing that’s shocking they buy it? Yes, ah I was shocked in.

21:00.27

charukaarora

So um, yes, yeah, yes, let’s talk about both of these first when you started seeing people started interacting with you and your work. How was that like you feeling like okay now and I think this is one of the things we started feeling like There’s one this rush when you’re making something over like oh my god yes I want to make this and like it’s all about you then there is this that you make this work and then you have to put it out there so you like okay maybe someone will see someone but then suddenly if you feel like oh my god everybody’s got their eyes on here like yeah. What was that moment figure then we’ll talk about someone buying your work for the first time that’s always special.

21:38.50

kim

Well the um, it’s interesting because the one of the very I had people that would reach out to me and say I really like that and I would say oh I’m going to send it to you so the first probably 25 or 40 pieces I just mailed I just gave them away for free true story I just mailed it to him.

21:50.39

charukaarora

Wow. Could you.

21:55.73

kim

And a lot of it was because um, my own I was so excited about it and I didn’t put much weight on it and again I wasn’t a professional artist and you know I was just like Yay I was so excited for somebody to want my work here. You go here. It is and um I remember.

22:04.41

charukaarora

Yeah.

22:14.89

kim

And I won’t say who it was because they’re still in these room but like somebody was asking got like 10 or 15 of my original early pieces. You know I just mailed him out mailed them out and so there was a man from Switzerland that contacted me and um, he wanted like 4 or 5 of my pieces and that’s when I decided to charge because it’s like okay. Um, I feel like he’s wanting the collection. So I didn’t charge much but um, so that’s I started charge and then I was like okay well, how much do I charge and and and I’m still still about how much how much do I charge. Yeah and I finally have it figured out because what I do is I just keep raising my prices so I started out.

22:43.68

charukaarora

Figuring it out.

22:50.16

charukaarora

Yes, that’s all.

22:53.27

kim

Here and then I just I just keep raising and I just keep seeing okay well they still buy it at that. Okay, will they still buy it at that and you know so that’s how I do and people ask me how do you price it and I’m like well it’s what they’ll pay for. Ah so um, you know I’m safe and so I just kind of keep raising until.

23:08.30

charukaarora

Ah, yeah.

23:10.52

kim

And then if I start to see that oh people aren’t buying then I kind of bring it back down a bit but um, you know I have a pretty steady I have a pretty steady. Yes I’ve got it figured out. But um, it was it was strange So like I said I just gave away and even now um when somebody orders a collage for me I Always throw an extra one in.

23:13.39

charukaarora

Yeah, you’ve got to figured it out is.

23:28.84

kim

Like a freebie I was just throwing extra 1 in because I have like 900 collages so I always just it’s like here here’s an extra one. so ah yes so I do that frequently as well. So um and you know here’s the thing they’re not no I’m not afraid and they’re not.

23:29.72

charukaarora

Oh wow.

23:37.11

charukaarora

Um, okay so you’re not you not afraid.

23:45.73

charukaarora

Yeah.

23:46.21

kim

Precious to me I mean I hate to say that but my it’s it’s I They’re joyous to me I Love making them I want other people to experience that as Well. It’s not like I’ve spent hours and hours I mean I I do spend a time making them. But it’s not I Just love it and I want somebody else to love it as Well. And um. My joy is giving it to somebody else and having their joy as Well. So I know that sounds corny I mean I know that does but that really is that really is the truth. Yeah and I’m just happy to do it. Yes, that is why we create and I will say I mean I am privileged in that. Ah, my husband has a job.

24:08.48

charukaarora

Ah, yeah, no, absolutely not no, but isn’t that isn’t that why we create isn’t that why we.

24:25.25

kim

And so I don’t necessarily have to you know, pay the mortgage or whatever. So I am I am fortunate in that way. So I do want to say that if I had to make if I had to pay the rent then yes I would have to be selling these? Yes, Yes, yeah so I do want to put that clarification out there. So.

24:30.89

charukaarora

Yes, yes, then you would have thought Otherwise yeah, what do you think? no, that’s a good point. That’s a good and I think we all have like there will always be shortcomings and.

24:46.13

kim

Yes, yeah, um.

24:50.18

charukaarora

Pros and cons of our situations. Um some certain things and situations will always bring you some advantages and some disadvantages and I want to ask you about that you being and coming like do you think you would have let’s say let’s say hypothetically if you were approaching where you are today in the early year of your life.

24:56.86

kim

Right? You know.

25:04.80

kim

Oh.

25:10.16

charukaarora

Um, do you think you would have approached things similarly that you are approaching them today.

25:15.94

kim

Um, probably not. Um I probably would have taken myself more seriously I think because I probably would have been more critical of myself because it is true as I have aged I have become less critical of myself and. I Think that’s just ah I don’t know how old you are, but um I know that in my thirty s especially I was much more. Oh What do?? what? do people think of me and do they care and now I’m wearing hats hats and sparko glasses and I don’t really care and here here walks Zelda past me as my daughter she knows she knows I don’t really Care. So um.

25:38.32

charukaarora

Yeah.

25:47.80

charukaarora

Um, yeah.

25:49.95

charukaarora

Yes, hi.

25:50.57

kim

You say hi this is zelda she good say hi yeah, yeah, and now I just don’t really care and it’s like um yeah I would have the 4 but it’s like what? yeah I put that up there. Yeah zelda yeah, she looks at my things here anyway. Um, yeah, so I would have been more critical of myself and I probably would have been. Like what do people think of this and what do they think of that and like oh am I gonna wake up Alex Alexander am might too laugh. Okay, right had to be a little bit quieter. Okay, just a little bit. Okay, anyway, but yeah, so ah, definitely that. But I do think I would have still done art with great abandon because I did crafts and things with great. and and I wasn’t afraid to make a mess and I wasn’t afraid to experiment but I probably would have been more critical and I probably would have been a little bit harder on myself. But I’m not hard on myself anymore. It’s very liberating and you know.

26:35.00

charukaarora

Yeah, yes, yes, so this is what you think is the advantage the plus of being where you are right now. What let’s I Just want to learn more about like what you think you have on your strength and I think you truly have that.

26:45.59

kim

Yes.

26:53.59

charukaarora

I’m in my 30 I’m just getting there just started so and I think I mean um I still feel like um I need to feel free myself a lot more than I I mean even as an artist I feel like and I feel like I’m a very early you know, very very free person but I also feel like.

26:54.42

kim

Yeah, you.

27:12.98

charukaarora

Um, as as you age, you start to think more about who you are than you think about what people around you are and what they expect out of you and I think truly as we age. This is one of the biggest trends that we gain. What do you think has been.

27:19.55

kim

Both of or off.

27:27.24

kim

Yeah, yeah.

27:29.99

charukaarora

The hard part of starting now.

27:31.84

kim

Well ah, technology and um it it really is because um ah had I started this when I was you know in my twenty s it would have been so quick for me to pick up and because I see like my children just quick quick quick quick. It’s.

27:37.40

charukaarora

Ah, yeah.

27:50.61

kim

Difficult for me to pick it up now and it is a true difference in your brain and I hate to admit it but your brain does become slower and wishshy when it becomes 50 and even even had even 40 it probably would have been easier but it’s not that I can’t do it and I am doing it. It’s just slower.

27:50.88

charukaarora

Yes, yes.

28:02.96

charukaarora

Yeah, yeah, you are doing great.

28:09.41

kim

And you know I’m trying but ah you know learning those kind of news things. The creativity part of it’s not hard. It’s that technology side and the other thing that’s harder for me is that business side. Um, and I hate the business side I Hate the technology side but um.

28:15.64

charukaarora

Yeah. Yeah.

28:27.19

kim

I’m finding it I’m having to kind of embrace that and you know I have to go with it. But yeah, those 2 things are are hard for me and also I just don’t want to do it. It’s like housework I just don’t want to do it so it’s like don’t it, you know, just let me be creative and I’ll be fine. Yes, um, but yeah, those things that are.

28:28.24

charukaarora

Yeah, yeah.

28:42.33

charukaarora

Ah, have the girls. Do it have the girls. Do it.

28:47.11

kim

Yeah, that’s right? Well you try that? um actually Zelda ze went home so she would have to do it all. Ah, the others are off at school. Ah, but yeah I mean and like with my husband I mean and I feel with him like I Um, you know Obviously we’re so married. Um.

28:54.83

charukaarora

Um, no, that’s interesting.

29:06.60

kim

But I feel with him like 1 of the things you know we kind of had this ah kind of head to head which was um, he somewhat lost his wife to art too because I mean I’m still here. But but you know he’s not getting the home cooked meal every night now. He’s not getting.

29:15.43

charukaarora

Hello.

29:23.45

charukaarora

Um, yes, yes.

29:24.95

kim

You know everything and I had to explain I had to kind of explain to him too like I’ve put in my time. Um, you know you can you can kind of because I was a stay at home stay at home wife stay at home Mom and so that also has changed. Um so it took him a little bit to get over that you know so.

29:28.58

charukaarora

Yes, yes, Mom Yes, you know what? that’s so interesting because. For quite a few podcasts on record off record this one of the things that has been coming up constantly which is um, a lot of people um women specifically because of course we have women guessed have this thing that they feel their partners feel that they’re too consumed and involved in their heart.

29:53.70

kim

All.

30:00.20

kim

Um, yes oh.

30:03.90

charukaarora

People who have their young children or who have partners who feel like they are too committed like even when they are present. They are a lot of lot of times not present and you know what Meanss and I was just looking at this situation because I feel like I’ve been on both the ends of the um spectrum I have a partner who’s as passionate as I am.

30:21.73

charukaarora

And I complain to him a lot more that he’s not present but in the past years I’ve seen seen the same change and um, he has the same even though he’s incredibly busy and like you know we try to make time together but he also feels I’m not as present or I’m so much invested in my work.

30:25.98

kim

Um, over.

30:41.66

charukaarora

And that strange is because you know for years men have always been invested in their work men have always been there like you know in their office in their and the moment and I feel like this guilt from women even if like like you’re crossing check. Okay I’m going to the studio should I make sure I I’m catching up.

30:47.78

kim

Um, yes, and yep.

31:00.64

charukaarora

On the kids or like you know I know like that even I’m like I’m not married yet and like I I live I have my own family and there’s so many things like my brother wouldn’t bother about but I will make sure like no matter how important things I have I will make sure. Okay, these things need to be done So I have to leave work and I have to go and make sure.

31:09.62

kim

Right.

31:19.24

charukaarora

So I’m basically taking care of the house of my own house my business. My practice everything else and ah in item that I feel guilty am I getting too much into it am I not giving time what you say? yeah.

31:21.90

kim

Oh right right.

31:31.53

kim

Right? right? And it’s that guilt that you have to let go of because um and I think with regard to men I mean the patriarchy has put us in that situation where we automatically feel all that guilt and I guarantee you at least that my husband.

31:40.65

charukaarora

Um, yeah.

31:47.10

kim

There’s no guilt on his part I mean he’s not feeling any guilt that he’s not feeling any of it and and I can tell you because I’ve asked him I’ve said hey do you feel guilty that you know maybe Allison didn’t get the best birthday this year that I just venmo the money and he’s like no you know he feels no guilt and.

31:47.22

charukaarora

Yes, absolutely I agree. Yes.

32:01.27

charukaarora

Yes.

32:06.31

kim

Here I am even though I was I was okay with doing it I still felt slightly guilty about it. You know? yeah I’m still thinking you know, but okay, um, you know and so but he’s not feeling any guilt about it and he’s still doing his own thing. He’s still working as much as he would work. You know he’s just thinking. Where’s my hot meal. You know.

32:07.81

charukaarora

You still thinking? Yeah, you still thinking about it.

32:16.80

charukaarora

Yes I hundred percent agree

32:25.69

charukaarora

Um, yes, yes, no yeah.

32:26.23

kim

Um, and I’m saying you can you can It’s in the freezer but um, but yeah so I I had to let go of that too I had to I had to let go of it’s okay, it was not easy. No.

32:31.96

charukaarora

Oh good and I’m sure that must not have been easy for specifically you’ve been like this this mother this hands on mother wife who’s been for 25 years who’s giving these meals making on top of the things and so and being so available I think.

32:43.50

kim

Yes, oh. Yes, very available.

32:52.10

charukaarora

I lost my mom in the past ah in the past two years like two years ago I lost my mom and I never realized like I never realized how how much hole she had on things like passively also like just not that but like and.

32:58.67

kim

I’m sorry and you’re dead.

33:06.11

kim

Oval.

33:10.90

charukaarora

Like how much women like e a I think the ability for women to multitask even like I and my partner speak about it like I’m like you do this even I work like you know you’re 2 doing this. This is I also do this like and he’s like you know what.

33:16.16

kim

Oh yeah, wonderful.

33:26.29

charukaarora

Let me just admit this that you um, you multitask a lot better than I can do and I’m like guess I know that but no weak as women be raised to do like that like I mean like even when like is’ as small as.

33:36.39

kim

Um.

33:42.81

charukaarora

Like you know when I go out or like so much of so many of us like I stay in India so if I go out even if I’m there I’m thinking about how do I go back or if I’m taking a drink how many people are around me or I have to be cautious of mess around. It’s like I am constantly as women we’re constantly like.

33:45.83

kim

Oh.

33:59.45

kim

Um, yeah, on Alert we have all.

34:01.00

charukaarora

Trying to do so many things and like yeah and being trained and like just just the expectations are of women is so much that we have like we we adapt to it.

34:10.30

kim

Yeah, we have to do it? Yeah well it’s just like um because I was talking to my daughters about this as women. Ah we are quite aware of like if it’s in the evening at night and it’s ah, a dark parking lot. We’re aware.

34:24.50

charukaarora

The moment. Yes, yes, yes, yes, no.

34:26.84

kim

We have to be careful and look around whereas my husband he didn’t think anything about it and he just goes and wants and you know women are very aware of their surroundings and very aware of what time it is and are there is it lighted and you know. Men don’t have to think about that and I’ve had these conversations with my husband and you know and he’ll have these conversations with my daughters and they’re very quick to tell him Dad. You’re a man. You don’t have to think about these things we’re women you know we think about these things you know, um, and.

34:43.50

charukaarora

Love yes.

34:53.71

charukaarora

Um, yeah, yeah.

34:59.51

kim

It’s been very eye-opening for him too now that his children are now that his daughters are adults and they’re able to say to him from a female perspective. You know things that he didn’t hear before. Um, so yeah and I think that men and again like even in the art world. If you think about this um men.

34:59.63

charukaarora

On Yeah express. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:18.70

kim

Have no trouble going to an art exhibition or an art opening that maybe they have to fly to and be away for a week um I could never have done that when I had kids for example and even now even now if my like my husband. He’s an attorney and he will frequently have to go to law.

35:21.98

charukaarora

Um, yeah, um.

35:27.20

charukaarora

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:36.42

kim

You know he has to go to a trial or he has to go to a convention or something he doesn’t even quote he didn’t even ask me. He just says I’m going to be gone from here to here to here by and it’s just he goes if I had to do something like that I would have to arrange the dog sitter the this and that and the the you know.

35:42.69

charukaarora

I Have to go.

35:51.17

charukaarora

Yes.

35:55.92

kim

There would be so much arranging that I would have to do for me to leave um and it would be such sets your headache. Yeah.

35:58.33

charukaarora

And 1 thing I notice always ah 1 thing I always noticed while while a woman leaving a house and a man leaving a house like not stereotypically like but in most of the cases like I used to I still see when I leave the house or my mom used to leave the house like.

36:06.80

kim

This yeah.

36:16.34

charukaarora

I’ll make sure. Okay, my dogs have the food or ah other medicines there is the food ready. Yes, or um, ah, clean or and I will keep saying okay I will come back. Make sure you do this this This is this by the time I’m back and many they just pick up the carckies go downstairs.

36:17.28

kim

Right? right? and they’ve been walked. Yes, yep, lights are off yep.

36:29.28

kim

Right? right? Nothing they just go Yep, Yeah yep and I know we’re being stereotypical and I’m sure there are quote some men that aren’t that why? but um, but you know also I also keep a running list in my head of.

36:34.16

charukaarora

And you’re done. Yeah, there are of course. Yes.

36:45.52

kim

What kind of food we need like are we out of bread. Are we out of milk. Are we out of eggs and I know that when I’m out I got to stop by and pick those up and does everybody have their medication and does everybody have clean underwear for the weekend you know women keep all those things in their head and so and even while I’m doing my art and making my collage.

36:45.55

charukaarora

Yes, yes.

36:57.69

charukaarora

Yeah.

37:04.38

kim

I’m on the phone and I’m you know organizing doctor appointments and you know and I’m thinking of all these things. So um, you know and my husband doesn’t have to do any of that stuff and and I do think that. Um you know I think for mothers going back into the art world though. What do they do if they’re because I.

37:12.88

charukaarora

Yeah, none of that.

37:24.00

kim

Get I breastfed my children for two years each and what do nursing mothers do that have an art show or that have to travel or I mean I guess I mean they have to take their baby with them I mean I guess they could pump but pumping is terrible. It’s.

37:37.72

charukaarora

Yeah.

37:40.60

kim

I mean I shouldn’t say that for me, it was terrible I think for some women, It’s probably fine. But for me I just didn’t enjoy it. But I don’t know it’s It’s just that. Ah I feel like the art world could be more receptive to yes and more inclusive and yes.

37:42.56

charukaarora

Yeah.

37:49.84

charukaarora

And how inclusive yeah I mean how many women how many children would spot in an arch opening yelling.

37:57.80

kim

And they can also arrived right? If you think about it you think about the? um yes and you know like they’re so kind of uppity with champagne and everything’s you know? Yeah, but um, anyway, that’s my two cents with that. But I think about you know now I could go.

38:06.36

charukaarora

Yes, yes I Love that.

38:16.72

kim

Because my children are dos I’d still have to arrange everything. It would still take time and still have to make sure my husband had meals in the freezer. But um, but before I it would have been you know I’d have to move a mountain in order for me to go you know so but like I said that the tiny I I love it. Yes.

38:18.15

charukaarora

Yeah.

38:27.20

charukaarora

Yeah, yeah, do you enjoy multitasking. Do you enjoy this part of your life. Yeah, and that’s strange. You know what? sorry go it.

38:36.40

kim

Yes I do I enjoy? Yeah well as to say I have that kind of brain. That’s my brain and probably you can tell by the way I speak I’m a very fast processor I process very quickly and I process multiple things at 1 time and um I’m just I’m it’s a talent I’m just very good at it. So.

38:47.42

charukaarora

Um, yes, yes, yeah, over twenty five years of practice.

38:56.10

kim

I like doing it. Yes yes, but um, yeah I do I like it? Yeah but I also very I’m a very creative problem solver too. So not just in art. But like if you have a problem like my drawer stuck.

39:00.66

charukaarora

You know that’s that’s interesting.

39:12.37

charukaarora

Andrea life.

39:14.60

kim

How can I fix it I’m your guy I’m your guy you know I I fix I fix things around the house I you know? yeah so I so I Just do all that kind of stuff anyway.

39:21.80

charukaarora

You know and that’s I think that’s something I’ve also felt like differently when I speak to people around me men at on me like and I keep telling that even though it’s exhausting like I feel like my mind is not in 1 place. A lot of time but also my mind is in the 1 place at a lot of times like I do feel that hustle. But I also feel that that I still have that stability like I’m a very stable person like I’m there and um, ah but I want to do these things like um I don’t cook. We have someone who cooks for us and who helps with us in in India.

39:51.55

kim

Yeah.

39:56.39

charukaarora

In India the culture of help. So if you’re in India if there’s someone working so the husband doesn’t get to eat so this is the layer you know so your husband gets to eat frozen food in India if there’s someone who’s working because we can afford like because of our population. We have a lot of house help and employment generation that we help in the economy.

39:59.25

kim

Um, yes.

40:02.58

kim

Um, yes, oh yes, yeah yeah, right.

40:15.55

charukaarora

We have a lot of people who help us. Ah, you don’t make this life possible. So the husband dera husband. Ah, you have to come here or you of course can I’m show your heart and you know what’s even more. What’s even more stranger.

40:18.30

kim

Yeah I would love to have somebody like that. Yeah I would love it. Yes, Well I read I’m yeah I’m stuck right in the middle of the Us I’m yeah is that right? Wow No I would love that. I’ve often said I used to tease myself wave I said I need a wife I used to tease myself I say where where’s my wife. Ah.

40:44.10

charukaarora

Ah, might have solid husbands who have people who cook for them like working wives ah women who are working demand that they want um, not only hot food. They’re already getting hot food.

40:50.42

kim

Wow.

40:58.88

charukaarora

Want food only could bite their wives So it goes as far as that It’s not the frozen food anymore. So like I think I mean it’s It’s so deeply like the you know the challenges for a woman um to break that barrier.

40:59.42

kim

Yep, A Wow Wow. Yeah wow.

41:14.77

charukaarora

And to even though like how much I like like I said I love to Multitask I Love telling what to cook what to do in the house things to do you know, take my dad dog like you know, take my dogs to the bet or do some laundry run or like things like that which is very you know it makes me feel like a person I just feel like I.

41:22.62

kim

Evil.

41:32.70

kim

Yes, and home right? right? right? moving.

41:34.78

charukaarora

I Don’t want to be so consumed with my own self my own work and I forget what life is I Love sitting under the sun I Love um and all those little things that make me feel alive but I don’t see that so often with they don’t feel like a cho to me on every day. Yeah, of course when it gets too much.

41:44.77

kim

Wolf.

41:50.33

kim

Yes, that’s good though. Yeah, that’s good.

41:52.89

charukaarora

Yes, but but not with men I feel I’ve seen so many men with who will not feel that way who feel like you know and that’s how differently sometimes we work and that’s I think that’s why also women multitask.

42:05.10

kim

Um, I think that’s the patriarchy though too I think that’s how men were raised I think that’s how at least in the United States I mean I think men were taught that you know women did the housework women took care of the kids women were teachers and nurses and secretaries and wives you know.

42:15.57

charukaarora

Yeah.

42:23.34

kim

Um, and and somehow um you know everything is put on the back burner for women, you know you didn’t have your career necessarily and if you did have a career you still did all the housework. Yeah um, you just did it when you got home from work and um and I think that you know the patriarchy is very strong and.

42:32.76

charukaarora

Yeah, yeah.

42:39.42

charukaarora

Yeah.

42:41.62

kim

It’s kind of it’s kind of enmeshed in our whole society and so I will say for me I’m very proud of my daughters all all of them have they have broken. They have broken the patriarchy and and all of them are very aware.

42:49.35

charukaarora

Love them.

42:56.90

kim

They do not have to have men control their lives. So I’m very happy about that. That is one thing I’ve been quite successful about I’ve taught them all well. Ah.

42:57.64

charukaarora

I left that I left and you are you doing that yourself I think what I love about you and I’m so grateful that we have this chat because it like you know, giving yourself experimentation like you know I think. Freedom that you’ve given yourself there is nobody who can give you that Freedom. It is you who gives you that slip it is who who gives you that permit like don’t feel Guilty. Don’t feel guilty create What you want to create take that leap make that shift like but sometimes we’re always looking.

43:19.49

kim

Yes, yes, everybody has to give that yeah writing yes.

43:34.27

charukaarora

We we forget that we have the power rather than someone else has the power and I’m sure when your daughters are looking at you. You’re doing this at fifty fifty five turning a new chapter you know now living for yourselves. They will see that that women do not have to like the growing order does not mean that you put.

43:36.66

kim

Yeah. Yeah.

43:50.23

kim

Right? right? Yeah, that’s right and you can still do it. Yeah I think I think that’s true and I think that’s 1 thing that they have ah come to realize with me is that.

43:52.71

charukaarora

Your dreams in the back burner go growing older does not mean you cannot learn. You cannot grow like it’s just an age that you can still do anything and everything that you want and I’m sure they’re learning great amount from that.

44:09.87

kim

It’s kind of it’s a new chapter and I’m embracing it and they’re They’re really excited for me I mean I at first I kind of thought that they would not enjoy that I’ve kind of broken out of the traditional mom roll and I was very much the mom I was mom with a capital M I mean you know, um, and. Um, now Mom with a small M. You know, but um, they they’re actually great. They’re actually very happy with him I’m an artist with a big a and mom with a small M now. Yeah and it has s switched but yes and I feel like it’s um, it’s a good fit for me now too. Um.

44:28.78

charukaarora

You are an artist with the big. A no yes, you’re an artist mom.

44:42.88

charukaarora

Yeah, oh yes and leaving like lots of buildings.

44:45.32

kim

But yeah and I hope to be like Grandma Moses I hope to be near 80 or 90 still doing my art and you know, um, but yeah and my message yes, ah, give gifts for everybody you know, but I do want to say though I think that ah for me the. Like I said I have been fortunate enough though that money has not been the main motivator or priority and I think that had it been it would it would have looked a little different I mean I it would have been a little different I mean I would have had to focus more on selling and because I do know there are some artists that that that is their main goal is selling.

45:03.91

charukaarora

Yeah, yes. It would have been different.

45:14.72

charukaarora

Yeah, yes.

45:20.36

kim

And I think that when you have that as your goal it does kind of stifle you a bit and so I will say that that that has yes you do and I think that because I do have some friends who you know they have to that’s their living they have to do that and so you know I think so I say all of my stuff with a little esterot that says.

45:23.11

charukaarora

Yeah, you have a clock running over your head.

45:39.20

charukaarora

Conditions apply.

45:40.27

kim

You know if money isn’t your main. Yeah and I will say this too I mean I I could be doing more to sell my work I choose not to but because that’s that to me is not the the fun side of doing my art. Yeah, but I am gonna have to do more of I’m I’m going to hire an assistant by the way so that’s coming up.

45:48.70

charukaarora

Um, yeah, a priority. Yes.

45:56.17

charukaarora

Yes, that’s a great move. That’s great. Yes I Yes, oh my goodness. This is so nice I had so much fun talking to this was wonderful and I’m so grateful. You stayed this late.

45:59.23

kim

So somebody’s going to have to help me. Yeah, so so instead of cooking for my husband I’m going to hire myself an assistant. So that’s true. Ah, ah yes, well yes.

46:15.80

charukaarora

And for all the energy that you’ve bring that you’ve bought here.

46:17.22

kim

Yes, well thank you and I’m very happy with your endeavor with all, you’re doing with your magazine and your online presence and all of that I think that’s great for women and it seems like you have a nice international audience and you’re you know, expanding beyond just you know India and Asia and Europe. So.

46:24.31

charukaarora

Um.

46:33.53

charukaarora

Yes, yeah, 1 one big community. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you came before I let you go and you have to let us know where people who are listening to this.

46:35.34

kim

That’s really good. Yeah, it’s really nice. Well thank you for inviting me I appreciate that. Well if you meet you’re welcome. Yes.

46:51.93

charukaarora

Where can they find you where can we? yeah just put in anything that you need your Instagram any upcoming project where people can you know connect with you just take the flow.

46:52.32

kim

Okay, well I am on Instagram. Okay.

47:04.10

kim

Okay, um, okay so I am on Instagram at glue paper scissors and then there’s an underscore. So it’s glue paper scissors. Underscore you can also I think find me at Kim Hamburg if you just type that in to Google I’m also on Facebook as. I don’t know if I’m Kim Hamburger Kimberly Hamburg I don’t really know it’s quite honest I’m one of those 2 I think you can find me Kim Hamburger Kimberly yes, and then um, my website is kimhamburg.com so I try to make it easy. You know, just look for my name. Um, what.

47:22.90

charukaarora

Um, to send it a link I will add it in the journal. Not.

47:30.31

charukaarora

You know what your website I couldn’t have I will figure that out I just couldn’t access your website I was just trying so hard and I don’t know why it didn’t work.

47:39.28

kim

You couldn’t could you know you couldn’t get did you do an e r g or URG a lot of people do e r g well I hope I paid for this month. It could be that I didn’t pay ah give me that not I haven’t checked ah and see that’s the other thing.

47:45.10

charukaarora

I Did a go note.

47:53.28

kim

I just I have to learn how to I did my my daughter help me with the website but I’m the one that maintains it. So it’s very possible that I did something that I didn’t maintain it. It’s not up so I let Jack I’m telling you that is my downfall that is my downfall. Okay, so I yes I can make you a nice collage but i.

48:01.60

charukaarora

Ah, maybe you do? Yeah, we all had that you not alone now. It’s sleep time.

48:10.96

kim

But I can’t fix my website so but and ah as of right now I Really don’t have I don’t have really anything coming up I’m going to be in a few magazines but I can’t really announce that yet. But you know so just kind of look for me on the Horizon I will I will Well thank you so much.

48:15.62

charukaarora

Ah of it.

48:23.61

charukaarora

Um, so when you do let us know we’ll shout for you new family same here and I hope you have a good night and let’s give your your daughters and rest in peace.

48:30.39

kim

Nice talking to you? Okay, well thank you you too? Yes, yes I appreciate that right? Bye Okay have a good day bye.

48:40.14

charukaarora

Thank you so much My you.