Watch & Listen to this podcast Episode.
This week on the Arts to Hearts Podcast, we have Anupa Mehta as our guest, who is a force to be reckoned with in the contemporary art world. In this episode, our host Charuka Arora asks Anupa about her experience in the art world, the shift has she seen over the years, and her own relationship with artists and art collectors.
Anupa has been in the art world for quite some time now, and she has closely witnessed how things have changed, something she touches upon in this podcast. Anupa has had an illustrious career. With three decades of experience as an editor, art consultant, curator, and gallerist, Anupa is not only trained in journalism and arts management, but she also holds a Master’s degree in Narrative Therapy. She is also the founding editor of Art India magazine, and the author of INDIA 20, a book of interviews with leading contemporary Indian artists.
Anupa started her career at a time before the evolution of the digital world, and so she misses the slowness of life and how people were able to have a conversation face to face. While she enjoys her work as much as she did all those years ago, she can also sense a shift in perspective and behavior among the younger artists. For those contemporary artists, Anupa has only one piece of advice and that is to ‘be adaptable’.
Listening to Anupa, it becomes clear why and how she was able to excel in her career path. As a gallerist, Anupa knows the art of building relationships. She values trust and integrity above all, and that is why she is able to form sustainable relationships with her clients, whether they are art collectors or artists. She still looks at the world in a way that may be described by some people as old-fashioned, but that is a good thing. It is precisely those values that have enabled Anupa to see through people and gauge their needs, and that’s what makes her so good at what she does.
So, tune into this week’s full episode to find out more about Anupa and how she sees the art world of today!
| Timestamp | Summary |
| 00:00.00 | Anupa Mehta enjoys being a gallerist and the process of selecting art. |
| 01:44.18 | Anupa Mehta reflects on the challenges and idealism of working in the arts. |
| 03:04.49 | Anupa Mehta discusses the importance of taking time for art and engaging conversations. |
| 04:42.36 | Anupa Mehta compares the old school approach of artists to the transactional nature of young artists today. |
| 06:55.35 | Anupa Mehta explains the process of selecting artists for representation and the importance of unique and sustainable artwork. |
| 08:08.33 | Anupa Mehta discusses her involvement in the day-to-day process of working with artists and the importance of gallery representation. |
| 09:09.28 | It’s important to find a good match when working with galleries. |
| 10:05.45 | Collectors buy based on trust and integrity. |
| 11:33.67 | Young collectors are more exposed and willing to experiment. |
| 12:46.75 | Building relationships and trust is important for young collectors. |
| 13:37.86 | Advice for young gallerists |
| 14:59.22 | Advice for artists |
| 18:36.32 | Anupa Mehta shares her experience as a woman entrepreneur in the art world. |
| 18:54.44 | Discussion on the impact of gender in business and society |
| 19:25.86 | Importance of working collaboratively and inclusively |
| 23:03.50 | Cultural norms and patriarchy affecting women in India |
| 24:53.30 | The need for change in societal perceptions of gender |
| 26:19.97 | Announcement of an upcoming art exhibition by Sarah Kapaja |
| 26:44.10 | Closing remarks and well wishes |
[TRANSCRIPT]
**** – (): 00:00.00
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): These do.
**** – (): 00:00.14
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Ask the question again. Okay yeah, out of all these roles that you’ve had so far today. You’re a gallerist but you’ve been a writer. Um you know in a publication running running a residency. What is your favorite and the one that you enjoy the most.
**** – (): 00:18.90
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So I like being a gallerist because it gives me a rounded perspective. Um, the nicest part about that is that you do look at a lot of art you know and you get in touch with younger people different perspectives selections of art and that’s an exciting process you know because.
**** – (): 00:19.46
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Okay.
**** – (): 00:35.88
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Um, you’re also bringing your own intuition your awareness to the table to understand that. Yes, this work of art or this idiom has the potential to become an important idio and then it’s about shaping that.
**** – (): 00:54.11
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, and.
**** – (): 00:54.89
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So I enjoy that? yeah.
**** – (): 01:00.47
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Can you share your experience of running the residency how was that and how was building partnerships then I’m really interested in knowing because you know in today’s time we have social media we work with I work with people all around the world. But thanks to internet that it makes a lot of those things possible and easy. But I’m sure at that point while you were having these conversations and art was still not in the spotlight as much it is today and looking back ah back I’m I’m sure at India it was a ah, very different scene. What was it working back then in the arts did you not feel it was. You know, did you had your own inhibitions of not being a sustainable career because people have that even today like how it’s going to pay off your bills. How will you make money even though you’re not being an artist.
**** – (): 01:44.18
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yeah I I won’t say it was easy. Okay I won’t say it was easy. But I think that what kept us going was a sort of um idealism and belief and wanting to make um make something that.
**** – (): 01:46.70
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Okay.
**** – (): 01:59.78
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Would be a sort of bridge to the rest of the world and you know it was slow even though email was still around and you know you would meet people face-to-face and they would come to Amtheba and conversations were held slowly languorously over trips to various homes. You know.
**** – (): 02:04.50
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, okay.
**** – (): 02:19.19
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Cups of tea etc I think now with social media and internet we’ve lost that you know connection. It’s a very yeah but it’s a very you know transactional thing like let’s get this over bit. You know what am I getting out of this and I think that’s a little.
**** – (): 02:23.91
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, the slowness the tactileness.
**** – (): 02:32.26
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, yeah.
**** – (): 02:36.73
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Pointing because if you speak to some of the older artists. They also have this sense of loss that you know people don’t have time these days to have engaging conversations I can remember it’s manyars with some of the older artists.
**** – (): 02:38.42
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah.
**** – (): 02:47.30
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Right.
**** – (): 02:53.68
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Or with collectors in their homes looking at art and before you knew it half a day had gone away. But today we’re managing time in little bits and slices you know so I think art time art needs. Um a space to.
**** – (): 03:04.49
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah.
**** – (): 03:11.27
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Really just kind of flow things can’t be done in a rush I Really do believe that.
**** – (): 03:15.63
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, living from Bomba I’m sure that is um, how do you manage that perspective when being in a person you know in a place where you art is about you know, being so much into it versus you know in a city where everything is so fast and everybody has so little time and is. Always on to next. How is this experience also from moving from M the bar to bomb me I’m sure that must look very different.
**** – (): 03:39.97
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yeah I mean I’m the birth in Bombay are very different of course although I started off in bombay um I think the thing is that you decide what you want to do for yourself to you want to work in a pace. But I think I know I agree with you about bombay because.
**** – (): 03:46.30
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Okay.
**** – (): 03:52.76
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Night.
**** – (): 03:59.93
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Even New York and London are not so chaotic as bombay is mummy is really here. But I suppose he he has said of course.
**** – (): 04:07.93
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): that’s that’s true but it it has it has a lot of creative energy it I think that’s that will give Bob me okay, tell me something um you worked with both ends now over the yearss artist.
**** – (): 04:21.30
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yes.
**** – (): 04:24.93
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): And art collectors. We’ve spoken a little bit about art collectors and we’ll get there. But first let’s speak about artists from over the years if you’ve seen what has changed what were the I think the inhibitions in bottlenecks for artists then and now your experience with working with artists over the years what do you.
**** – (): 04:42.36
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So you know I had the privilege to work with artists like aber butamsi and Rainda Reddy and even these all old school folks who don’t talk about contracts and don’t talk about transactions. It’s it’s you know things are about.
**** – (): 04:42.59
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Want to share about that. Um, yeah.
**** – (): 05:00.89
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): The work the you know the kind of preoccupations about the work the concerns around the work finance is important yet, but it’s 1 aspect of it. So I think I think it was much it was old school. It was about the process. It was about art I’m not saying it isn’t today it is but it’s very.
**** – (): 05:04.36
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, um, on.
**** – (): 05:11.30
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Right.
**** – (): 05:20.57
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Cut and dried. You know I mean I’m sorry to say this but I think young artists don’t think twice if I just kind of ah being bulls in the China shop to say okay, this is what I want and this is what you deliver and when are you going to do it if you don’t do it I’m gone you know and you’ve been put in 3 years of
**** – (): 05:21.85
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): No.
**** – (): 05:37.78
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, yeah, um.
**** – (): 05:38.89
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Into somebody’s life to build them and then they hop on to the next thing and it’s okay, but it’s it’s you know for somebody who’s old school it. It sometimes makes me wonder you know what are we doing by is everything so transactional. Um I mean as I understood it.
**** – (): 05:49.61
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Ah.
**** – (): 05:58.30
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Great artists and great art dealers have worked on trust and they worked in relationships and integrity is very important but I understand that everybody’s in a rush today to get to the top get to the top galleries get to the top collectors Blah Blah blah.
**** – (): 06:04.53
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah.
**** – (): 06:16.30
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Doesn’t happen overnight you know I wish younger artists would you know I Really wish artists would have some more patience and be some you know sort of be considerate.
**** – (): 06:17.33
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, absolutely yeah.
**** – (): 06:30.61
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): How is the process ah for working with artists. Let’s say from a gallery’s perspective Also um, how do you work with them. What is the way you know, let’s say what goes in your mind when you’re looking at an artist’s work and you fit you feel like okay this is something that I’d like to represent I’d like to curate a part of my process or you know. And then how is your dealing with an artist. You know that goes further into it.
**** – (): 06:55.35
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So you know when when I mean we have an open call process at the gallery once a year we have an open call although people do mail around the year um and then once if I select something from the open call. Um I spend some time. Looking at what they’ve done what their trajectory has been etc like say if I had an artist who’s done 50 shows around the world but yet is not been signed up by a gallery then that would tell you something you know about what is required to build this person up because and it’s a slow process.
**** – (): 07:22.86
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah.
**** – (): 07:30.73
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So these are the kind of things and of course the work itself is you know important is it unique. Is it a unique idiom does it have the ability to sustain itself. You know when you look at a work of art. You’ll know whether the artist’s work um has the potential.
**** – (): 07:39.10
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): And.
**** – (): 07:49.91
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): To be able to sustain itself over the years yeah I mean of course everybody has created blocks. But so I think that that aspect is really important.
**** – (): 07:55.10
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, and what about how do you work with artists on day-to-day Basiss artist. You’re representing. You’re working with what does an artist. Gallery’s relationship look like for you how how involved are you in the process. Um.
**** – (): 08:08.33
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Smith.
**** – (): 08:13.60
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): How does that look like.
**** – (): 08:15.28
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): I think I’m too involved in the process and I need to distance a little bit very honestly but I work with a small group of artists. Um and put a lot of energy into each person’s career and we have like contracts which are.
**** – (): 08:18.46
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Okay, yeah, okay.
**** – (): 08:31.90
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Renewable every tool 3 years and I think that’s the only way to go because if you don’t work with some sort of exclusivity and you want to play the field then you shouldn’t seek a gallery representation you know because I think a gallery representation provides certain things. But there’s also a limitation to what gallery representation can do in the sense that well one gallery can’t sell to all the collectors in the world right? It’s not practically possible. So but we work through partnerships we work with collaborations you know.
**** – (): 08:59.20
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): And absolutely absolutely yeah.
**** – (): 09:09.28
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So it is It is always possible to have a gallery representation and yet to work with other agencies. Um, but I think it’s also about personalities. It’s about people getting on with each other. It’s like a marriage isn’t it.
**** – (): 09:23.74
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah,, that’s true I think and it does I think you have a very good perspective and you know that I think we all have very different way of working Some people are extremely involved some people like to get that distance and all artists have very different ways of working with people and. It’s like a matchmaking you have to find a good match for yourself to build this long sustainable. Ah relationship. How yeah.
**** – (): 09:48.58
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yeah, no, it’s true. Um, there’s an artist I’m very fond of who we represented for 15 years I met him at the fair recently and I said when was the last time I met you and he said once ago. So.
**** – (): 09:54.81
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah.
**** – (): 10:02.59
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Wow.
**** – (): 10:05.45
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): There are all kinds and then there artist want the message all the time sending you messages by the minute. So the access is okay so I think the collectors that we work with.
**** – (): 10:12.41
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): And what about art collectors. Heart collecting over the yards.
**** – (): 10:22.83
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yeah I think collectors we worked with largely our old school again my vintage and you know they bought and it’s just thing to see that none their kids are buying and it’s a small community. You know all of us are selling to the same people and I think ah.
**** – (): 10:31.15
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um.
**** – (): 10:39.19
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah.
**** – (): 10:40.37
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Collectors buy and they know that you have integrity and that you make sure that your artists are going somewhere and you know we don’t be in the business of selling off just anything right.
**** – (): 10:45.14
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, right? yeah.
**** – (): 10:52.39
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah.
**** – (): 10:55.29
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So I think collectors also buy on trust mainly and they buy from key galleries. It’s not like they’re going to buy from just anybody So it’s about nurturing relationships building trust which I would say is an important thing of.
**** – (): 11:02.10
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, yeah.
**** – (): 11:08.59
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): What do you think has deferred for young collectors versus you know experience collectors. What is the difference between them and how I also want to ask as a calories for you to you? Um, how is how are young collectors. Um. Shaping the world of collecting today. What are they interested more in where the audience that you are serving. How is it different for them than the previous generation. Let’s say.
**** – (): 11:33.67
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): I Think exposure is the key difference. The younger people have studied overseas traveled seen more museums have read more ah more aware of practices. Um more willing to experiment you know with ephemeral work etc. Willing to take a chance a young artist and paying attention to what the trends are so I think that’s the difference older the collectors Some of them will go on the basis of what they like or who they believe will intuitively become. Ah.
**** – (): 12:08.31
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): What more.
**** – (): 12:10.40
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): You know that part and artist look at like saying for instance I sha bought a lot of work by um Judishalat and not from me but from Judish gaat and um Auldodia and now we know where the artists are right and at that.
**** – (): 12:22.49
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, right? okay.
**** – (): 12:29.41
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Both of them young. They would just start of college and this say he was young as well and this was an instinct right? So it’s also about who acquires the work for artist which is important like if if your gallery is able to sell to a museum.
**** – (): 12:36.33
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Right.
**** – (): 12:46.75
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Then that’s half the battle right.
**** – (): 12:49.73
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Right? No, that’s true, tell me something. There are a lot of people who listen to the podcast who are not only artists. But of course are entrepreneurs somebody is an agent today. Um, and I think what’s become interesting in the art world today is that you’re no longer playing 1 role which is very interesting specifically as artists. Because I think like we spoke about um when you’re no longer just 1 identity and you you know ship shaped into multiple There’s a lot of perspectives that you’re gaining and then you know you have a more rounded um experience. Let’s say um if anyone who’s let’s say a young gallerist. Who started their path. What is your advice for them. What do you think from your own experiences your biggest learning if you know they’re stepping into the world of you know art on the on this side.
**** – (): 13:37.86
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So I’d say 1 thing is to put your ego aside you know I think you have to be able to be humble and you have to be able to do everything that lens on your table which could be dealing with the painter carpenter and the whatever you need to know all of this stuff right? You can’t run a business otherwise of course.
**** – (): 13:50.80
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
**** – (): 13:56.83
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): And hire people who know it? Yeah, the thing I would say is as that’s a lovely word. Be a shapeshifter to adapt to things you know, take on different roles morph into things and the third thing I would say really is that somebody once told me that you know even a charity has to be run like a business.
**** – (): 14:02.34
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah.
**** – (): 14:14.41
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): He are true. Yeah.
**** – (): 14:16.20
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So you have to love right? Okay, if you if you’re not going to be able to sell artists then the gallery business is the wrong place to be in. You know.
**** – (): 14:23.30
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, and what are your advices for submar and let’s say this is not only specific to galleries to artists. But I think building a base of art collectors is something that we all have to do even if you’re an artist self-representing working on your own working from your studio.
**** – (): 14:34.28
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Show.
**** – (): 14:40.43
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Or you’re an agent or your let’s say a galleries. What are your tips for saman. Ah, who’s in the early years of the career to you know to build a sustainable relationship to figure out who the collectors are what kind or how do they reach out. You know things like that.
**** – (): 14:59.22
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yeah, so you know in Sharikka I would say that um for an artist. It’s different from a gallery right with a gallery. It’s also more transactional more to do with investments more to do with appreciation but with an artist. It’s about big knowing that you have.
**** – (): 15:06.97
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, let’s hear it.
**** – (): 15:13.25
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, yeah, okay he.
**** – (): 15:17.23
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): 5 collectors who are going to be ah patrons and they’re interested in your work. They didn you as a person they’re interested in seeing you grow and again I think it’s like a give and take if you don’t build that give and take relationship. Um.
**** – (): 15:30.79
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Right.
**** – (): 15:33.69
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Would happen. You know it can’t just be take take take take take there has to be balance. That’s my understanding but I little disappointed with younger people today in some ways because I think you see absence of patience which is making them ah feel anxious.
**** – (): 15:36.40
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah.
**** – (): 15:44.46
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Okay.
**** – (): 15:52.59
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Then need to do anything possible to clamber up to the dog and that’s in the long run detrimental because people can sense when you’re desperate people can sense that right? So I would say take it easy. You know, think about what you really want to do and have you.
**** – (): 15:57.49
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, right? Yeah am.
**** – (): 16:07.78
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): The kind of relationships you want to build the kind of people you want to be associated with okay, wonderful. Any last piece of advice or an experience you want to share with us young am.
**** – (): 16:12.18
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Exactly exactly.
**** – (): 16:20.61
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): I Think have fun. You know it doesn’t all have to be so so serious and highbrow. You know it can just it can also just flow right.
**** – (): 16:30.92
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): How do you make sure that you’re having fun while having business I Also want to know that because it’s not easy. It’s definitely not easy.
**** – (): 16:39.10
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Um I think just I have learned to step back now you know I mean you can’t do anything in a market that’s still fairly raw in the sense that collectors think nothing of you know, bargaining and driving you into the ground.
**** – (): 16:43.50
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Okay. Yeah.
**** – (): 16:55.50
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): And I wouldn’t call them collectors because a collector wouldn’t do that These are buyers. You know trend to have art on your walk and your architect said get a piece of art. You decided to do that. But I think it’s important and the onus is on the buyer as well to educate themselves.
**** – (): 16:58.10
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
**** – (): 17:12.54
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): To be aware of how relationships are you know I think we respect our buyers. It’s important buyers respect galleries and artists you know and the role that galleries play but this is yeah but this has been.
**** – (): 17:25.82
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): No, that’s true. 1 last question I promise oh so you have something to say good 1 last question I really want to ask? um and i.
**** – (): 17:31.26
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Saying this has been fun. You know while we were talking about felici his. So yeah.
**** – (): 17:41.94
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): And I asked this from a place of really looking up because I I feel as a woman in business myself in the business of art I just feel like um, there’s so many roles that we’re constantly playing um as a woman and it’s never easy and like we said like it’s like shapeshifting. Um. In your own experience working I think the times have really changed as for us as women women are entrepreneurs creatives that is whatever we want to call it. Um, what has been your biggest ah I would say experience strength to over the years where it was not as ah. It’s a common spoken about or let’s say empowering as it has become a mainstream notion today. Um, how has your experience been as a women entrepreneur creative someone in the art world over the years
**** – (): 18:36.32
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): When makes stat say I remember I was um, fundraising um fordu in Mumbai and I raised a lot of money for them. Young and one of the chair personson said and anopa with her charm managed to raise 75 laruies and that was twenty years ago
**** – (): 18:39.62
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Okay, okay, okay.
**** – (): 18:52.68
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Oh oh my God I can agree, you’d never describe a man like that for sure now.
**** – (): 18:54.44
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): And I want to say wasn’t my charm that did it to know it was appalling to be just by a man in the business and and I think yeah of course you wouldn’t you right? because you were you were under estimating the fact that. I Have you know a diploma in Arts management and that I’m a fundraiser and I’ve raised this money for your institution Blah Blah Blah Maybe the long short of it here is that we live in a patriarchal society and whether we walk it or no on to rule play is still a part of our system.
**** – (): 19:25.86
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah.
**** – (): 19:30.40
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah.
**** – (): 19:31.22
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): And if you worked in a collaborative space. We might achieve much more and as a woman today I you know I stop looking at gender I think if you look at things in an un genderdered way and really in an inclusive way.
**** – (): 19:39.38
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, that’s true. Yeah.
**** – (): 19:47.79
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): We might be able to achieve much more. You know that’s my thought may never see myself as a woman entrepreneur I just see myself as you know somebody who’s in the business one.
**** – (): 19:50.80
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, there’s no after.
**** – (): 19:59.33
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, yeah I think that’s that’s I think we I think in my opinion I do I agree to this. But here’s how how I shape it I think when we’re doing the act. Let’s say when we’re working like anybody. You never see oh I’m a woman and I’m doing this I Think with that talk you can never even take an action Sometimes it’s reaction that reminds you Oh you are a woman like you said while you were doing something you were just fundraising doing the work that you needed to do doing your business but it’s the world.
**** – (): 20:20.83
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): No.
**** – (): 20:36.94
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): That again puts you in a box and reminds you and I would say not in a positive way. Sometimes um oh that you you are a woman and that is I feel like ah that is something that needs to change over the time where you said you know I think most women would work from a place of neutrality. But the world also needs to look from a place of neutrality and not see a gender as something to offer.
**** – (): 21:00.11
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Show but in know what it plays out either way right? A lot of women play their gender. They use that as a card. So so there’s that and there’s a fact as strong women. We always have the room in the ability to push back right? You have the room to.
**** – (): 21:05.54
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Oh yeah, yeah, that is a completely different case for sure. Yeah.
**** – (): 21:19.20
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, right? Yeah, absolutely for sure.
**** – (): 21:19.98
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): You don’t have to take the stuff that’s doled out you know, just because you’re a woman so I I think it’s a the conversation. It’s a whole new conversation. You know it’s about 1 ne’s position um as as a woman and within the world.
**** – (): 21:31.84
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
**** – (): 21:37.98
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): If I come from a place of feeling offend or feeling persecuted. It becomes very hard. But if I come from the place of it being a level playing field and everybody is doing best and it’s on merit then we’re in a better place I think.
**** – (): 21:47.32
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, yeah, yeah.
**** – (): 21:56.20
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): You know I’m easier set than done and today I can push her. Ah.
**** – (): 21:56.31
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely I’m sure it’s also a lot of experience that comes through I think um, when I look back at my own self. Let’s say 10 years younger of course my mindset was really different. You’re 50 you know you’re already in the business for so long. You’ve had so much experience and it that that really does it really changes you and it truly I’m sure we all have a long way I have a long way to go there and I’m sure I’ll have more experience and wisdom by then.
**** – (): 22:15.55
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yeah, put.
**** – (): 22:25.71
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So you know I just soont to share this interesting thing that happened the other day so I have this carpenter and he’s right as our all our carpenter’s been trained of the years and you know he’s all called me Madam and then suddenly on the telephone yesterday he said bo a behan.
**** – (): 22:30.94
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Joy.
**** – (): 22:38.90
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, okay, okay.
**** – (): 22:44.87
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): So the relationship change equation change and I wanted to say you know do I want this equation to change because patriarchy a system means somebody who looks up to a brother but means a level playing field your work I’m paying you and that’s the end of the day.
**** – (): 22:46.30
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Um, okay.
**** – (): 22:51.10
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah.
**** – (): 22:57.17
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
**** – (): 23:03.50
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): But it is complicated because India as a country has a lot of cultural knowns that we have to straddle you know women. It’s not just patriarchy which impacts people.
**** – (): 23:07.65
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yes, right? It’s very deeply in drained I’ll tell you I I bought my car for and I remember signing my papers and you know going through things and I had my first call and. He called the agent called me from the dealership and he told me um, you know whatever, whatever, um, can I speak to sir so that I can close the deal and I said what sir um he wanted to speak about payment and I said there’s no sir. It’s me.
**** – (): 23:36.11
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): And yeah, that yeah, but yeah.
**** – (): 23:44.49
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): I’m buying I am paying and he he was a little taken aback and there are a lot of people involved in the process because there was a delivery team. There was a negotiation team. There was the sales team and they so they formed a group with me while they were delivering and processing and then somebody ah was filling my form.
**** – (): 23:53.80
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Um.
**** – (): 24:04.13
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): And when they were failing. They messaged me ah mom. Ah Mrs Charroka Aurora ah where do I ah, where do I something and I and then I replied and I I wrote rew wrote and I cut the misses and I boldly wrote m I s.
**** – (): 24:10.98
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yeah, yeah.
**** – (): 24:23.36
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): And I said charuam I Then again I had to tell I said I am buying I am paying I don’t have a father or a husband please do not do this ever again and it felt it felt so um, humulating not as a as a person myself but just looking at the world at sometimes that.
**** – (): 24:33.14
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Walk this.
**** – (): 24:43.36
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): How this self resume that a place of a woman like there has to be someone paying for this. There is someone or like you know it’s just it just doesn’t feel enough for them. You know.
**** – (): 24:43.67
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Yeah, yes.
**** – (): 24:53.30
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Um, yeah, it was the same. It was the same thirty years ago it’s the same today. Or sweet. Yeah yeah.
**** – (): 25:03.40
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Yeah, but I think it’s we’re all changing slowly and steadily I think the world is changing but it’s still a little. We still have a long way to go but you know you’ve led that path I’m joining you in this I’m sure so many more people are ah young women are doing that. So.
**** – (): 25:20.33
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Thank you so much. Sarah thank you so much for your knowledge young.
**** – (): 25:20.37
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Thank you for the work you’ve done and I only hope that you do much more missing. Okay, 1 last thing. Absolutely I just want to say I want you to give I want to give you the state as well and share if anything upcoming that you’re working on the new shows that’s happening at anoperma. Anything that you want to share with us with the projects and about the galleryie. Um for people to follow you where they can find you the shows, etc.
**** – (): 25:45.90
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): What yeah where our Instagram link is an uppa meta contemporary art. We have an exciting show coming up in March by Sarah Kapaja a bombybased artist who works with bird feathers and her work is really a commentary on climate change loss of abian life and. Looking in the sort of cultural spiritual significance of a material like bird feathers. So. It’s an interesting exhibition I hope people will come and visit us in Kalaba in Mumbai from March Fourteenth on birds. Thank.
**** – (): 26:19.97
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Perfect. So I’ll make sure that once we published this episode and if you’re listening to this, you’ll find the details in the show notes of this episode I will link Um, Annapa’s gallery page more details and we’ll take some. Snippets from Manimpa from the gallery itself and made sure you do visit? Um, the article and the show notes page to learn more and look at um, the artists and the work. The calary is doing itself now. Thank you so much. Absolutely same here I Only wish you the best.
**** – (): 26:44.10
**** – (): Anupa Mehta
**** – (): Thank you, Thank you So lovely to chat with you have a great day me to take care I see you? yeah.
**** – (): 26:52.99
**** – (): charukaarora
**** – (): Same to you when one sick.
About the Guest(s):
Anupa Mehta is a prominent figure in the art world, serving as a gallerist, writer, and curator. With a passion for art and a keen eye for talent, Mehta has made significant contributions to the art scene in India. She has worked with renowned artists such as Abir Karmakar and Rekha Rodwittiya, and has curated numerous exhibitions that showcase the diverse and vibrant art of India. As the founder of Anupa Mehta Arts Advisory, she continues to support and promote emerging artists, bridging the gap between the art world and the public.
Episode Summary:
In this episode, Anupa Mehta shares her experiences as a gallerist and offers insights into the art world. She discusses the joys of being a gallerist and the excitement of discovering new artists and perspectives. Mehta also reflects on the changing dynamics of the art scene, from the slow and intimate conversations of the past to the fast-paced and transactional nature of the present. She emphasizes the importance of trust and relationships in the art world, both between gallerists and artists, and between gallerists and collectors. Mehta also touches on the challenges faced by women in the art world and the need for a more inclusive and gender-neutral approach.
Key Takeaways:
Being a gallerist provides a well-rounded perspective of the art world, allowing one to engage with different artists, perspectives, and art forms.
Building trust and nurturing relationships is crucial in the art world, both with artists and collectors.
Younger artists and collectors often lack patience and are driven by a desire for quick success, which can be detrimental to their long-term growth.
Galleries play a significant role in shaping an artist’s career, but it is important for artists to have realistic expectations and understand the limitations of gallery representation.
The art world is slowly evolving, but there is still work to be done in creating a more inclusive and gender-neutral environment.
Notable Quotes:
“Art needs a space to flow. Things can’t be done in a rush.” – Anupa Mehta
“Great artists and great art dealers have worked on trust and relationships.” – Anupa Mehta
“Collectors buy on trust and often choose galleries based on their integrity.” – Anupa Mehta
“Put your ego aside and be willing to do everything that lands on your table.” – Anupa Mehta
“As a woman today, I stop looking at gender. I think if you look at things in an ungendered way and really in an inclusive way, we might be able to achieve much more.” – Anupa Mehta
Charuka Arora is the founder of the Arts to Hearts Project and Host of the Arts to Hearts Podcast. She is also an acclaimed Indian artist known for her contemporary embellished paintings. Her unique blend of gouache, collage, embroidery, painting, and drawing explores the intersection of art, culture, heritage, and womanhood. Through her work, she tells stories of female strength and encapsulates them in pieces that can be treasured for generations.
Charuka’s work draws inspiration from Hindu mythology, recognizing women as vessels of Shakti, the cosmic energy. She beautifully portrays powerful goddesses like Durga Maa riding a tiger or lion, symbolizing their unlimited power to protect virtue and combat evil.
Through her art, Charuka invites us into the world of women, showcasing their beauty, strength, and resilience. Her creations not only exhibit exceptional talent but also serve as an inspiration and a symbol of hope for those challenging societal norms.
Arts to Hearts Podcast is a show delving into the lives and passions of renowned artists. From running creative businesses and studio art practices to cultivating a successful mindset, Charuka Arora engages in heartfelt conversations with her guests. Experience your personal happy hour with your favorite artists, right in your studio.
Through candid discussions, Charuka and her guests reveal the joys and challenges of a vibrant creative life, both within and beyond our studios. Get ready to be inspired and uplifted as you tune in.
Anupa Mehta
With three decades of experience as editor, curator, art consultant and gallerist, Anupa trained in journalism and arts management, and holds a Master’s degree in Narrative Therapy. Founding editor, Art India magazine, she is the author of INDIA 20, a book of interviews with leading contemporary Indian artists. She was an arts marketing and fundraising consultant with the National Centre for Performing Arts, NCPA, Mumbai, and has directed the Kala Ghoda Festival, Mumbai and Ahmedabad International Arts Festivals. She has lent curatorial support to several exhibitions, including for the Indigo project at the Kasturbhai Lalbhai Museum, Ahmedabad. In the early 2000s, Anupa directed an international residency project, Arts Reverie, in Ahmedabad, in association with A Fine Line, UK. A published author – she was a columnist with three Indian newspapers and edited several books and catalogs on Indian art – Anupa’s career spans journalism, the arts and psychotherapy. An ATSA fellow, Anupa has received various grants and fellowships.
Being a gallerist allows Anupa to have a rounded perspective. In her line of work, she gets to look at a lot of art, which allows her to get in touch with younger people and perspectives while also bringing her own intuition and awareness to the table. She has to decide whether a certain piece of art has potential or not, and that’s something that she enjoys.
Witnessing shifts in the art world
Living in today’s world, connecting with other artists and building relationships has become somewhat easy as you can reach out to people via social media. Anupa acknowledges that becoming a gallerist before the advent of the digital age was not easy, but what kept her going at that time was the belief to make something that would act as a bridge to the rest of the world. While she admits to the challenges in the beginning, she also talks about the perks and merits of it. People used to see each other more and have engaging conversations before the internet completely took over our lives. Now, we have lost that and many old-school artists miss that ability to have face-to-face conversations.
As someone who started her career when life was not so fast-paced, and who also largely works with old-school artists/art collectors, Anupa has witnessed a drastic shift in the the way younger artists conduct their business. Anupa is of the view that art needs a space to flow as things cannot be rushed. However, nowadays people seem to be in a hurry. Younger artists tend to conduct a more transactional relationship, while before the relationship between artists and gallerists was more about the concerns and preoccupations about the work itself, something that Anupa misses.
No one can deny the importance of finances, as they are a crucial aspect of this business. However, Anupa has noticed that things have become more cut and dry now. Great art dealers value relationships, trust, and integrity, but today, everyone wants to get to the top, which is not something that happens overnight. If younger artists had more patience, it would definitely yield better results both for them and the art gallerist.
Older vs younger art collectors
Keeping an eye on the changing trends is important for someone in the art business because once you identify these shifts, it becomes easier to manage your own business. If you know what your clients expect from you, you are better able to deal with them, and that’s what Anupa has been doing as well.
Compared to the older generation, younger collectors are shaping the world today with a slightly different approach. Anupa notices that a key difference today is the exposure of these young collectors. Today’s generation has traveled more, read more, and is willing to experiment more. These contemporary art collectors pay attention to the trends and are willing to take a chance. On the contrary, older art collectors are more likely to go with what they like, and that’s something that impacts how you deal with each one of your clients.
Anupa’s experience as a woman entrepreneur
Living in a patriarchal society, it was hard for Anupa back then to be given credit and appreciated for her skillset and talent. Anupa believes that we would be able to achieve more if we had more collaborations and started to look at things in an ‘ungendered’ way. It was hard back then, and it’s still hard for many women to be taken seriously, even though more people are participating in this discourse. The best course of action, according to Anupa, is to stand your ground and stay focused.
As strong women, we always have the room and the ability to push back.
Anupa Mehta – Arts to Hearts podcast s04e07
How to sustain relationships as a younger artist
Building relationships with art collectors is different from a gallery. With a gallery, it’s more transactional and has to do with investments and appreciation. When you are an artist, you have art patrons, and with them, you have to build a give-and-take relationship. You can’t keep on taking from your collectors, as there has to be a balance.
When it comes to younger people, one reason why Anupa feels disappointed is because she has observed an absence of patience. Through her dealings, she feels that many younger artists want to get to the top quickly, and in such cases, people can sense that you’re desperate. She thinks that these artists need to take it easy and think about what they want to do, the kind of people they want to associate with, and the relationships they want to build.
Advice for a young gallerists
For younger gallerists who are just starting out in this business, Apuna’s advice is simple.
Put your ego aside, you have to be able to be humble, and you have to be able to do everything that lands on your table.
Anupa Mehta – Arts to Hearts podcast s04e07
From dealing with the painter to the carpenter, you as a gallerist must be willing to do anything that comes your way, and that’s how you will be able to successfully run a business. Anupa uses the word ‘shapeshifter’ because as a gallerist, you must adapt to things, take on different roles, and morph into them. Another thing Apuna says that new artists and gallerists must understand is that, if you are starting this business, then you must be able to sell artists. That’s the only way your gallery business can be successful.
In the end, Anupa encourages young gallerists and artists to have fun, to not be so serious all the time. Anupa’s gallery has an exciting show coming up in March by Sarah, a Mumbai-based artist whose work is a commentary on climate change. So, if you can, do visit this interesting exhibition in Mumbai. Meanwhile, you can check out Anupa’s gallery Anupa Mehta Contemporary Art on its website and Instagram.
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