00:00.00
charukaarora
Okay I am so so happy. So so happy to see you because I remember when I first first actually spoke to you that was via the art queen’s call I was having a really hard time and I remember I asked you a question and. You gave me an answer but I was having a value a hard time and you were like you know what don’t care for what people think just do just go with the flow and readed out anything and everything that’s stopping you. It’s been too real since that cause since you spoke that and we’ve been in touch 2 yes, 2 years

00:29.82
danielle
Really.

00:35.35
charukaarora
I’ll tell you where I was at that point. Um I was living um I just um, the covid had just started things were falling short I was very confused very lonely didn’t know what to do had nothing in place. Two years later I have a full time practice. Have my podcast asked watchts project magazine the editorials the course so much that I I have been saying that to you for so long I have kept on like I keep messaging you I keep telling you you know what. I have so much to credit you for this so much.

01:14.19
danielle
Ah I think it’s all you.

01:18.11
charukaarora
Ah, but you know if I do agree of course there’s a lot of work that I made sure I did but sometimes you just need that 1 person 1 push and something happened in that moment for me. Um, as it. It was just.

01:29.34
danielle
No I’m so I’m so happy. Yeah.

01:34.21
charukaarora
Thank you? So I firstly I want to start by saying a big thank you because after 2 years I I have been thinking of calling you for so long and I was like you know I just don’t know what is the right moment for me because it really meant a lot for me to come here and you know to have this conversation I said like you know.

01:46.99
danielle
I.

01:52.14
charukaarora
Will never be a good time. Maybe I’ll always be a work in progress. But maybe you know you’ll give me another push or something that I’ll come back to years later to you and I’m like see what you did.

02:03.70
danielle
Yep, that’s a thing I think we’re all works in progress all the time right? That’s kind of the it’s kind of the exciting thing. You know to always be pushing and always be discovering new stuff and meeting new people and waiting for those aha moments like I find that’s what I find is so Exciting. Yes.

02:19.82
charukaarora
Scary as well. Ah, to be honest to be honest I love that excitement of a problem I’m a hundred percent in progress person. But my goodness the past two years I’m so scared of the coming day. But it’s been terribly terribly hard and I think when you push those days and it’s like I love the journey but I’m getting more and more scared of what life can throw. But even then it’s like you know it also shows you the courage and this time that you can have. But yeah, um, I am so excited to speak to you.

02:47.42
danielle
Yeah, yeah.

02:52.96
charukaarora
Okay, tell me something how are you doing today.

02:57.36
danielle
Ah, really good. Actually it’s it’s very cold in Canada but I’m very tucked away I’ve been working in my studio I’ve got paint all over my hands and yeah it was a good day.

03:05.32
charukaarora
Oh how? amazing yes and you’ve had a lot too in the past two years since we spoke. There’s so much that has happened for you. You know I loved your shows I think out of everything that you’ve done and I’ve seen so far. Your collaboration with the jewelry project like oh my goodness I was like this is my dream come through? Yes yes.

03:29.24
danielle
Oh yeah, that’s right up your alley. Yeah that’s right up your alley. Yeah, that was amazing and just kind of happened really strangely and um at a perfect moment and um, ah, they reached out and asked. They wanted to start this project where they would recycle all of their jewel that they were going to toss out because they didn’t want to. They didn’t want to put it into the landfill and so they worked with Penny Lane you know penny lane right? Yeah, so they worked with Penny Lane um to choose an artist who would start this program this first full circle artist program and I was the first artist.

03:54.77
charukaarora
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

04:05.18
charukaarora
Wow! yeah.

04:06.68
danielle
Because Penny said Danielle loves old broken jewelry send it to her so they showed up one of the women that works for a lover’s tempo has family near me so she came in a car with a huge tub.

04:17.14
charukaarora
And.

04:21.77
danielle
And 2 giant bags. They were so heavy. We could barely lift them from her car to my car filled with broken jewelry. Oh it was like I went down to my studio for I think I was prey down there for about 8 hours and I just they had organized it like.

04:24.48
charukaarora
Oh Wow bed to oh my and it feel like a tragedy you.

04:40.87
danielle
How a jeweler would organize it I didn’t know what any of the stuff was though like to me it was like what are these weird little sticks. Um, apparently that’s why you make dory. But anyway so I was like I’m going to put those in the nest pile so I had that you know and I I had a flower pile and I had but you know circles and triangles and I.

04:43.00
charukaarora
Yeah, yeah.

04:58.60
danielle
Separated everything out by shape and color and everything and then just started playing and I was supposed to make one piece for this auction and all the money would go to um, an organization that would then plant trees. Um, and so I was supposed to make one piece I made 5 and then they let me even keep some like they’re they’re going to pick a new artist this year but they let me keep a bunch of the jewelry ah to incorporate it into my work because now I’m addicted I’m like I can’t give you back all this stuff.

05:25.70
charukaarora
yes yes hoing yes yes I I get you a hundred percent it’s like like I think people like us are such hoarders and I’m like I can’t let go of trash or things that I find people find trash where I find them beautiful I’m like.

05:32.94
danielle
Ah, yeah.

05:44.57
charukaarora
I Don’t know what I’m going to do This is like right now. But I know one day I will make something out of this.

05:46.94
danielle
Um, yeah, yes, yeah, my my studio looks like like an antique shop or a thrift shop or something. It is just like junk everywhere and I could not be happier. You know like it just I love it down there.

05:56.00
charukaarora
Oh my Oh my god.

06:02.30
danielle
And yeah, but that was such a fun project and I just gave all the stuff back because they’re picking a new artist in the next month or two and I was like you know if you want to pick me again like you know that would be so anyway. Yeah I mean they’re amazing. And yeah, yeah.

06:14.48
charukaarora
Ah, that would be still oh my God I Loved I Love that work. This was like I think it was such your um like your work. It felt so much you but yet it was so different and.

06:21.50
danielle
It was a really beautiful project.

06:32.75
charukaarora
It really felt like like also it felt like the fines that you actually share on Jealous curator. You know that blows your mind and like I was like oh my God This is like this is a jealous curator pick. This is definitely a jealous curator pick.

06:37.83
danielle
Oh thank you.

06:47.10
danielle
But that’s so funny because when I make my work I I keep that in the back of my head like I think would the jealous curator write about this and if she wouldn’t write about it I know I know that the work’s not there yet. So I keep pushing. So.

06:56.13
charukaarora
Oh my goodness.

07:03.44
danielle
Until I feel like like it’s very like out of body experience. But until I think would she write about this? Yes, or no then I know that I’ve got a push or or I’m there you know so that’s a very big compliment to say that That’s what you thought about that work and.

07:04.38
charukaarora
Um, yes, yes.

07:17.93
charukaarora
Um, boy it was I was blown away and you didn’t.

07:19.28
danielle
I mean it was they they said to do whatever I wanted and so I was kind of yeah I really I wanted to but I didn’t incorporate any like found Imagery like ah paper pieces because I really wanted to honor the jewelry like I really wanted it just to be about the jewelry. Um.

07:30.81
charukaarora
Um, yeah, um, yeah.

07:38.63
danielle
So There was no little people in there anything or Cigarette Butts or anything which I think maybe they were expecting but I just felt like it took away from the jewelry too much and I just really wanted to focus on the chains and all the bits and pieces and the sparkly stuff because it was just. Yeah, like you said it was like a treasure opening that bucket I just was like nobody bother me I’m going to be down here for hours just sifting through staff. It was so much fun.

07:57.18
charukaarora
Yeah, yeah.

08:05.69
charukaarora
It is so it this is what? ah so in India if you go to check markets and you know local market. This is what it feels like you know so when we go to like um jewelry markets and even if it’s just not like um. Ah, raw pieces like pieces but also ready jewelry. So you find these alleys and there’ll be like tons of Jewels like you know, hung up on strings and it seems like you know it’s like a treasure hunt and when I saw that that series and I was like it. It felt a lot of home to me because I think that’s also where i.

08:20.13
danielle
Yeah.

08:38.35
charukaarora
Come from and I could feel that you know their sense of a jewel like it also felt like it shapeshifting because even though it had that feeling it. It was still something else it. It didn’t you know it was very I I Totally love that it’s It’s still always like some work that you see is always parked and.

08:47.65
danielle
Yeah, it was yep.

08:57.94
danielle
Oh thank you so much. So nice I should come on here more often. You can tell me how great I am.

08:58.10
charukaarora
Like back of your head I think that one is for me.

09:07.90
charukaarora
Oh I have long list. Okay I am so happy and I’m very very excited to you know speak to you and before we just go in I wanted to um, let you know that you know oxfordart’s podcast is all about.

09:25.61
charukaarora
The idea is always to have an organic conversation I don’t come prepared with questions I Love to call people that I truly truly admire and love or I want to speak to learn. You definitely are on top of the list so am very happy I Just wanted to know. Um, if you’re comfortable.

09:44.50
charukaarora
Speaking about your journey so far I wouldn’t do regular questions. There’s a lot of information about you your journey I have a lot of questions about um I want to ask you about you know I know you’ve been taking a break from the podcast. Your journey with being a jealous curator and being your artist yourself and I think I I truly feel the flip side you know the overlap yet the juxtaposition of both the things and I’ve I’ve heard the recent conversations with Andi. So I really want to touch upon that and see what you feel about it.

10:05.00
danielle
Yeah.

10:17.13
danielle
Oh.

10:21.70
charukaarora
Um, if you’re okay talking about grief if you’re okay talking about grief and how that impacted you because I’d really love to speak to you about that and anything else that feels but these 2 things about your journey if that’s okay, with perfect.

10:23.93
danielle
Yeah, totally Um, yeah.

10:35.97
danielle
Yes, absolutely I’m an open book and.

10:41.44
charukaarora
I love that okay, something that’s been on top of my mind. You’ve been. We’ve been missing out for year I know you’re coming back I recently for the first time so I did my podcast for 1 year straight 100 plus episodes no break at all, never missed a week

10:57.53
danielle
Wow.

10:59.54
charukaarora
And and then two months ago and all of this while well I’ve lost my mom. There was a whirlwind at my home in my personal life but it was 1 thing that I really I think it really helped me push myself but I realized at one point I pushed myself too far and I’m like.

11:18.49
danielle
Um.

11:19.30
charukaarora
I was too afraid to take a break because I think maybe the fear of losing out. Um the fear of letting something go something that I’ve built very with a lot of love. But I did I know you’ve also recently taken a good break and a lot of us have been messaging you missing you out, you know. And always I remember pushing you like when are you coming back and you were like um I will I will so I just want to ask you and you’ve also spoken about this on Andy’s um Andy J Pizza can you talk us through what really has been happening behind the scenes.

11:57.77
charukaarora
With the break with you the podcast and what have you been feeling.

12:00.83
danielle
Yeah, it’s a whole bunch of things. Um, so I’ve done 227 episodes um they’re all artist interviews. Um I felt like you for the first few years I just i.

12:06.27
charukaarora
Oh good miss.

12:18.80
danielle
I I was so proud of it so into it I couldn’t wait to post the next episode and then in 2018 so about 2 years into it. My dad died suddenly and um and I know you know.

12:29.86
charukaarora
Yes, I’m so sorry. Yeah.

12:36.49
danielle
That kind of pain and I I it was ah it was a shock ah him passing was not expected and I just stopped caring about anything I just didn’t want to do anything I was so mad.

12:55.21
charukaarora
And um, yeah.

12:55.35
danielle
I was so mad at him for being gone when I still needed him I was mad at everyone who still had a dad I was mad that the world was still continuing like how could people be going out for lattes and going to the movies when I didn’t have a dad.

13:02.11
charukaarora
Oh my god.

13:08.90
charukaarora
Who.

13:13.33
danielle
How could I possibly record record a podcast and ask people about their lives because I did not care about anybody I I was just so ah so deep in grief that I just was like ah so I took a big. Took quite a break then like probably nine months and then people were saying please come back. Please come back and I thought okay like I should you know? and so I did but I didn’t do it for me I did it for everybody that was asking me to do it.

13:47.23
charukaarora
Ask him.

13:50.72
danielle
And I still enjoy it I Still enjoyed every single one of those conversations and I but mixed in with all of this is that I’ve always had phone anxiety like I don’t even like phoning for pizza I Love that you can online order from almost everywhere now.

14:01.42
charukaarora
Good. But yeah, yeah.

14:09.58
danielle
And um, after my first maybe 50 to 100 episodes I ran out of people I actually knew so I was just like you know you know I was just like cold calling artists who I admired and every time I was going I would have so much anxiety about.

14:16.43
charukaarora
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:25.33
charukaarora
Oh my God If it’s coming from you. You can’t have oh my God I can’t believe this if it’s if it’s you saying that I no longer feel I ashamed of saying this.

14:28.72
danielle
I Just be so nervous. Do you feel like that. Do you feel nervous to call people or no.

14:43.64
charukaarora
Because oh my God like I’m like if I do not have enough so since my mom I’ve been suffering from severe anxiety ctpsd and like you said my mom’s death was um, a very big shock. Ah, very very big shop for me and a lot of things that happened host that you know it. Ah, honestly if I I’m still angry that everybody I’m very angry at my own mom on oh my I don’t have words I just I feel like it’s like a. I Think losses and Grief is such that that sometimes it opens a womb of warmhos of um past present Future Traumas and grief that you you just can’t you don’t know what’s happening and that’s precisely. Why Also I took a break but.

15:32.25
danielle
Yeah.

15:33.97
charukaarora
I every time just I love the conversation as as long as I’m here to be very honest, a hundred percent honest even this coming up till this point wasn’t easy for me I you this is the first see first episode that I’m recording with you and I was and I had all kinds of crazy things happening since morning I was like.

15:48.45
danielle
I want.

15:53.33
charukaarora
I Don’t know if I I’m ready should I do it should I not do it I’m like I don’t know I mean I just have to push myself and see if it feels that and maybe if I go in I’ll feel look and I do feel okay but everything before that reaching out to people letting them know rescheduling. Um. Every moment is full of so much anxiety that and I feel like it’s it’s crazy because I do enjoy this but I feel overwhelmed.

16:20.26
danielle
I Know it’s the buildup to it. It’s the buildup to it the minute the person picks up and says hello I’m fine. It’s the it’s the it’s the scheduling and the knowing that I’ve got that call and like even tonight knowing that like all day.

16:26.80
charukaarora
Yeah, same here.

16:38.50
danielle
I usually try and record in the morning so I can get it over with so I just wake up and I do it and I don’t think about it but because of our time difference. This is nine thirty at night for me so all day I’ve known that there’s this been this call and it stresses me out knowing it like it makes it literally makes no.

16:39.62
charukaarora
Yes, yes, yes.

16:49.47
charukaarora
He has local.

16:56.11
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

16:58.52
danielle
Sets because the minute you pick up I’m so happy to see you and talk to you and the anxiety goes away and rationally I know that I’ve done 220 episodes of my own podcast like I know I know that but I still can’t convince myself to do it. So.

17:05.21
charukaarora
Yes, yes. Yes I Die food.

17:17.79
danielle
Art for your ear is coming back but I’m doing it differently. It’s gonna be more like a um I’m calling it. Um, it’s still art for your ear under the art for your um, your umbrella. But I think I might do like little series and so the first series I’m gonna do is called um, crits and coffee um like art school but without the crying. So.

17:36.93
charukaarora
Hoa.

17:37.49
danielle
Um, I’m doing like kind of like an art consultation but not with the person live. So I’ve had people send me their portfolios and their issues that they’re having and the questions that they have and then I’m just gonna talk just myself. But.

17:53.64
charukaarora
Um, review. Wow.

17:56.60
danielle
Give feedback without a guess. So um and I’ve I’ve picked people whose questions are are broad enough that I know ah it will like touch so many people. Um and so yeah, so that’s what I’m coming back with so it’ll be different.

18:12.20
charukaarora
This is true. This is so interesting and so different.

18:15.73
danielle
Yeah, so it was really good. We were on big. Yeah I just I needed to shake I needed to shake it up because I felt like I’ve talked to 227 people. I mean there’s endless amounts of talented people. So I there’s more people I can call but I just not that I was bored. Of the format I just I don’t know it’s like creativity right? It’s like it’s as if I’d been painting sunsets for 7 years and it’s like well I want to paint I want to paint a you know a seascape like it was just like I just want to do something different creatively and.

18:44.87
charukaarora
Um, yeah, yeah.

18:52.90
danielle
So my husband and I had a big long talk about it and kind of strategized he was like okay well what are the what are the what’s it called like the the sore points like what don’t you like? So I said the anxiety of like scheduling guests.

19:07.70
charukaarora
Rating it.

19:08.15
danielle
You know, blah. But and then he’s like okay and what do you like and I said well I love knowing that people come away from it feeling like recharged and excited and like that they’re not alone and um, he was like okay and he like and what do your listeners want. And so you know we went through all of that and then so and because I had such a terrible experience at art school with Critiques. Um and and feeling like you know that to the point where I didn’t want to show anyone my work for about 20 years just to have like.

19:30.10
charukaarora
Yes.

19:38.98
charukaarora
Goodness.

19:40.49
danielle
Positive reinforcement like you can get feedback without it being soul crushing. You can get feedback the whole point of it is to actually push you forward and encourage you right? It’s not to crush your dreams and stop you in your tracks.

19:50.65
charukaarora
Right? right? right.

19:55.61
danielle
And so I thought okay well maybe I can take that bad experience that I had now like twenty five years ago and turn it into something good for other people. So that’s what the new podcast is going to be.

20:06.42
charukaarora
This is so interesting and you know what? um I get you because you know, um so I think that’s how we get creative with our own problems and how we approach solutions differently I Remember after my mom. Um. Really like I went into a cocoon I Um I I felt like after my I went in so much of a shock that for one year I just worked like um I escaped I escaped into anything and everything I could not Confront my feelings not feel the reality.

20:37.29
danielle
Um.

20:39.89
charukaarora
But also the anxiety that was getting um harder every day and was like so I had 1 of my colleague who was supporting me for everything I was doing and I was like you know I can show up for the call I can I can do that part but I don’t think I can do any of the other part. So. I recorded so much all that time and I’m very grateful for for her support because she would do you know we would discuss and I would keep sharing and that something that really helped me because you know what when a jealous when jealous curator reaches out to people. They’re excited and they’re like oh my goodness you know you do not need. Um. Um, to you know, push people and you know explain them that you know this is something that’s going to value their time and you know all of that and I was like you know so when I would reach out to people I would always feel this difference that I always felt oh this is too far fetched for me or.

21:33.41
danielle
Oh.

21:34.93
charukaarora
Why would this person would like to come on this podcast or why would they be interested and I was like so I I would just um, tell her you know, but do you feel that way today. Really.

21:40.96
danielle
Just so you know I felt exactly the same way I always felt exactly the same way with people.

21:53.85
danielle
Yeah, there’s people there are there are artists who I who I would love to talk to that I’m I’m like oh they would never. They would never. They would never come on and like Sandy Scoland I had Sandy Scoland on and I like studied her in our history and um and.

21:53.88
charukaarora
Oh my good maid.

22:04.95
charukaarora
Yes, yes.

22:11.58
danielle
I saw that she commented on 1 of my posts one time and I was like oh oh my god Sandy Skland’s following me so I quickly messaged her and I was like hi um would you want to come on the podcast she was like I would love to and she’s just the loveliest most amazing woman and so it just goes.

22:13.15
charukaarora
Oh.

22:28.84
danielle
Show I mean everybody has those like imposter syndrome things. Okay, anyway, so go on so you were feeling like you couldn’t reach out to yeah yeah.

22:28.98
charukaarora
Yes, yes, yeah, so I was like you know, maybe this is if I’m getting if this is becoming a barrier and it wasn’t I It wasn’t that I intended it was just that I was dealing so much within my own personal life that I couldn’t be so responding. And she was like you know I will reach out to people and we had this email template and I would just you know, tell her? Oh I Really think this person would be Interesting. Can you just drop an email and it worked out so great that I didn’t have to reach out to people and she would just send those emails and do the scheduling and I would. Even though like recording is not that easy like you know set up the whole thing and you know like it’s technologically all its it takes a lot of movements but it did it did make me like um it did make her things things a lot of a lot easier but when I went she no longer was part she she went for her further studies.

23:12.93
danielle
Yeah.

23:26.36
charukaarora
That’s when I was like you know that’s where I reach your point I was like I cannot do all of this on my own. It’s it’s too overwhelming I was feeling so burned out and at one point I felt like if it’s if it’s going to go then it probably would go Um, my mental health had gone. Really really really crazy and I was like you know I need to take a break and you know what’s even strange what happened was while we were doing these podcasts and I just told you like you’re doing this video and I’ve been doing the video podcast for very long like ever since we’ve been recording I’ve always recorded video but we’ve never published video podcast and.

23:49.47
danielle
Yeah, yeah.

24:05.30
danielle
Um, okay.

24:06.30
charukaarora
And I had this idea that I really really really wanted to do um, really wanted to do in-person podcasts and you know and it was also like the drive like like I said when you you’re trying to escape grief and I was I think trying to escape what was happening around when I was pushing myself so much into work like more and more and more. And I tried to do that and I collapsed completely it called so overwhelming so overwhelming that I was like I cannot do this anymore like I can’t let alone in person I Just can’t do this I reach that point I was like put it.

24:37.67
danielle
Yeah, yeah, and were you were you still making your own art through all of this.

24:46.30
charukaarora
So for the past two years I haven’t been able to like be at 1 place and all this time I felt crazy like in the beginning I felt like oh my god I’m not in the studio as much as I could because I wasn’t I wasn’t staying at 1 place I didn’t have 1 place to stay and I felt like I’m no longer an artist and. I will never be able to why do I even feel like I’m because I’m not there and like all of all of I just made a post recently. Also about it and the most crazy thing happened I had very little time I was like you know I wouldn’t make sketches then. Whenever I would go in the studio I would make something and come out and make something and I miss one of my best something that I feel very close to my best body of work in in this time even though it didn’t feel like like you know that’s that’s the part where we feel like. I always felt like if I had to go into the studio to make a good body of work I had to be in the studio all the time or that you know I think I was making progress but it wasn’t in the way I felt what I expected myself to um, even i.

25:53.87
danielle
Right.

26:00.70
charukaarora
I Think and I you don’t realize what black you know what? a shock or degree or loss can do to you and I think I didn’t realize it for till till any year I felt like I was pushing myself so much that I was numbing everything that I was feeling.

26:17.27
danielle
Yeah.

26:19.12
charukaarora
And when it opened up it opened up so bad that I was like I didn’t know I was feeling all of this all through this and I was just pushing myself. But it yeah.

26:28.20
danielle
Yeah I think not numb is the perfect numb is the perfect word like um, my dad died at the end of November and I was supposed to be going to aspen like ten days later um to to I had curated a show and I was in the show and it was going to be this amazing. You know opening and whatever and I went I I can’t believe I went and like even the women that ran the gallery were like I can’t believe you’re here. But I think I was just in shock.

27:01.70
charukaarora
Yeah.

27:03.33
danielle
And I was just like I I just kept moving forward. You know? and um, yeah I was a mess for a really long time. Um, one of the really nice things that sort of happened during Covid for me was connecting with Peta coin. Um, because.

27:07.20
charukaarora
Yeah.

27:19.41
charukaarora
Yes I know that.

27:22.88
danielle
I’d had pete on the podcast and then um I don’t know when it I think we connected at the very end of 2019 and she was so nurturing and amazing and she basically was like just focused on your art for a bit like you know because I wasn’t really I was like. Running in a million directions and and kind of feeling like I wasn’t doing anything really well like I was working on books and the podcasts and my art and i’ my mom and you know I just kind of felt like wow and so Peter was like just breathe.

27:41.45
charukaarora
Um, Oliver.

27:58.69
danielle
And give yourself a year a year to 2 years to work on something and I was like a year to 2 year like what I like because normally I would crank something out in a month you know it was like see where you are in a month and then move things around and then try incorporating something else and then take something away and.

28:06.72
charukaarora
Yeah.

28:18.27
danielle
It was the first time I’d really given myself time and space to play and I was enjoying myself so much that that was sort of another reason that the podcast went away for as long as it did because peta asked me at 1 point if I could give her 5 hours a day in the studio. And I said well yeah like I do have that time if I read you know if I move some stuff around and she was like yeah I want you to do that and even if it’s just because you’re in their tidying up or but I want you to be in your studio. You know, being an artist if this is what you want I want you to do it and um.

28:43.54
charukaarora
Um.

28:55.45
danielle
I Loved it so much and I had a huge exhibition just in last March and um I’ve got a big new body of work happening right now that I’m in love with So it’s been really nice to just be selfish and just be doing my own thing. Um at the same.

28:57.33
charukaarora
Yes.

29:14.61
danielle
Time I do miss the podcast like I miss the sharing part like my husband always teases me that social media was meant for me because I love being like you guys look at this thing and so I think that’s what I’m missing about it. So with this crits and coffee thing I’m gonna try 10 episodes.

29:19.84
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

29:34.40
charukaarora
Um, okay, um, if enjoyed.

29:34.37
danielle
And just do it like a little series right? and see if like if I crazy love it. Maybe there’ll be 200 of them and if at at you know 8 I’m like o getting kind of this is tedious. But then there’ll be 10 and I’ll wrap it up and I’ll figure out a different series you know and I think creatively. It’s kind of like working on a body of work right? It’s like I can’t just keep painting sunsets like I need to keep changing and moving. Yeah, so we’ll see I mean it’s kind of funny to be talking about this right now without actually doing the first one like I’m so curious if I’ll love it or hate it and I’m gonna do video too and i.

29:53.51
charukaarora
Yes.

30:00.24
charukaarora
Shutting things up allow them.

30:12.78
charukaarora
Um, yeah, put your son.

30:12.92
danielle
I am quite famous for really hating getting my picture taken and or being on video So like what am I doing I’d like purposely setting something up and I’m going to hate it anyway. Um, but no I’m going to try it and see what I think and yeah.

30:28.84
charukaarora
You know that’s that’s lies you know, um, okay tell me something um you are a multipast you’ve done a lot of work. You have your own pride in the past two years your own practice has evolved so match your own work as an artist.

30:31.53
danielle
Yeah.

30:44.76
danielle
Have.

30:46.60
charukaarora
But you have also brilliant built this brilliant brilliant platform and a legacy like jealous curator. It’s it’s it’s a name. It’s it’s a feeling in it’s own like I said you know and when I see something like and I’ve ta you so many times like this you should see. It’s like you know I I know that this is. This is a jealous curator pick. It’s just not an account or block like it’s a feeling. It’s it’s something that you’ve built for all these years. You’ve published books podcasts. So clearly, you’re not a like you have a lot of things that you know I think like when I see something and I’m like oh this could be a great. Book or I want to do this and I have to pull myself back like you know, come back. I have a lot of things already and like you know I need to hold myself and I do feel like you have had been like that previously I don’t know maybe today but then hyper focusing and focusing on 1 thing. Did you have any fear of like as jealous creator also like of letting things go if you take a break what if what if you built everything so far or being focused on 1.

31:54.60
danielle
I had that fear up until my dad dying and then after that like that that not caring part kicked in and you know we were also surprised by my dad’s passing that and I’m sure he was too. Um, that. I had the whole life. A short thing you know and so I kind of stopped worrying about I felt like Joel’s curator I had enough of a foundation I started in 2009 I felt like I had enough of a foundation. But I also you know I thought I just want to do the things that I want to do.

32:14.55
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

32:20.33
charukaarora
P Yeah one.

32:30.36
danielle
You know, um like I’ve had a few publishers suggest different books like oh why don’t you write a book about this or why don’t you write a book about that and it’s like I don’t want to where before I would have just said okay because I just I was so afraid of.

32:36.98
charukaarora
Now.

32:44.30
charukaarora
I mean.

32:48.19
danielle
I was excited about the opportunities. But then I was also afraid of turning things down and never being offered that again you know and then I think it’s just my age too like you know, just getting to a point where I’m like man I’m good. You know and just doing the things I want to do like.

32:51.10
charukaarora
Not yes.

33:06.90
danielle
Really wanted to write a children’s book like that was like a dream you know? and um, it’s really tricky market to get into. It’s really competitive. There’s a bazillion amazing kids books out there but I was like I have I’ve got two now I just had these ideas and I had it was like this compulsion like I needed.

33:06.12
charukaarora
Um.

33:23.12
charukaarora
To do this.

33:24.75
danielle
To make these books and I did you know and I’m so proud of myself and like I don’t know if I’ll ever make do another kid’s book or another grown-up book. Um, if an idea comes I totally will but I’m not going to push myself to be on a schedule where every two years I’m releasing something or. You know I Just want to like um, kind of honor the creativity right? And if the idea comes or the passion is there then I’m going to do it and if it’s not there I’m not going to force something because I think that’s where burnout comes from you know, like that forcing yourself to push push push push push.

33:46.13
charukaarora
Yes.

33:54.26
charukaarora
Don. Yes.

34:01.41
danielle
Ah, based on what other people think or based on fear or based on whatever it’s I feel like life’s too short to feel like that. Yeah.

34:08.12
charukaarora
I Love that and it’s so Crazy. You know now you know that’s that’s how I’ll be as creative and also trauma I be how things respond So when my mom passed away and I think something that I feel I’m still in that mode is I went in so much of fear. Um, of losing everything because my mom was like it was it it just it. It wasn’t like it. It was like just a spur of the moment like she was here and then she was no longer here and then a lot of things happened like my my father got resettled and like.

34:40.61
danielle
And yeah, and.

34:47.11
charukaarora
A lot of things that moved in my fear only like accelerated and for a very long time like that’s it like how it impacted my art practice also because I felt like if if I wasn’t going if I wasn’t putting continuous or I wasn’t keeping touch continuously I would lose it like I would.

35:03.69
danielle
Yeah I would be who.

35:05.94
charukaarora
I would lose being an artist I will no longer be an artist or like if I don’t do the recordings or the podcast if I don’t speak to people if I don’t I feel like anything will fall apart in just a snap of the moment.

35:14.85
danielle
Yeah, and you’re kind of yeah waiting for the other shoe to drop in a way because yeah, it was so unexpected to lose your mom who knows what you’ll lose next? Yeah yeah.

35:22.99
charukaarora
Yes, and it’s so crazy because then I thought I thought that it wasn’t impacting my art practice my own self as a creative and then one year later my work has changed so much. My thoughts have changed so much and um, it impacted so much of my work because I I started finding I wasn’t able to find any kind of grounding anywhere else and anything that I had in control was my work I mean.

35:50.82
danielle
Know.

35:59.42
charukaarora
Even though if it wasn’t in control. It was still something that I think I could communicate with and I had severe like severe issues of abandonment I felt like for a very long time in that process I felt like you know my I’m not.

36:04.10
danielle
Right? like.

36:15.31
charukaarora
Feeling myself again and I’m not feeling like a creative and I don’t know if I’ll be able to create my work and honestly I think at one point I felt I gave up I gave up that you know I’ll still I will still make art I’ll still do everything I I because it’s it isn’t a choice I Think. It’s it’s It’s more like a survival for me now and I would always question this to myself I don’t know if you you did that like especially as someone who does a lot of things I would like I still need to remind myself. Why am I making art is is this something I’m doing just to you know.

36:34.26
danielle
Yeah I.

36:49.13
charukaarora
Satisfy my ego or any other influence or if it’s something truly that holds myself. But when I took that gap and every day I think even today every day is a strife and I feel like how do I find a place that even if it’s on my bed. Even if I have a studio but I don’t have access to it. How can I make something.

36:49.89
danielle
Who.

37:08.92
charukaarora
Even and mostly all of it is for myself and then I made a body of work that was very that that head that I was creating in pieces for the past one and a half year and then one one week and 10 days that I sat I was like I need this to myself and.

37:10.24
danielle
Yeah I.

37:28.22
charukaarora
Every time I would go back to my art practice. There is there was only one thing I could think about and that was there was that was grounding because I felt like when I when I think when you lose a parent. It feels like you lose a part of your roots. It’s like you lose a ground and. I felt like I was searching for something to hold on to like something something that that would tell me like ok you know this is where I belong or this is who I am and my practice my my art I don’t think it it any longer feel like a practice that became 1 thing that that would remind me. Okay.

37:52.40
danielle
Her.

38:03.13
charukaarora
I Would look back and then I I created So my my latest series was actually that’s why I think I Also really loved yours because my series was ah from jewelry back from jewelry that I saw my mom wear all these years and like part of our upringings and you know.

38:15.71
danielle
Oh.

38:21.97
charukaarora
And I felt like um even though even though she’s not here but in some ways I was I was trying so hard and subconsciously that I started to feel close to her and that happened through my own art. How was.

38:36.87
danielle
Um, yeah I yeah.

38:41.55
charukaarora
How do you think your experience has been with your own work. Do you think grief loss has impacted you over the years in your own practice.

38:51.26
danielle
Um, yeah, right after my dad died I had a big show scheduled in the June after he died I already knew like it had been scheduled for a year in Toronto and so I made the whole show sort of subliminally nobody really else really knew. But.

38:59.85
charukaarora
Are.

39:07.66
danielle
The whole show was sort of inspired by him and the work was very detailed and and so it was very meditative so I could just it was just Mark making so I’d be Mark making more and so I could just basically go on autopilot. Make these swooshes and just think about him so there was a lot of crying. There was a lot It was very therapeutic though and it’s funny because I look at those pieces now and I’m like I don’t even want to look at them I’m proud of them I think they’re nice but I just there’s so much pain. Ah, wrapped up in them that I don’t like looking at them and um and then at the same time I was having health issues and I ended up right at the beginning of covid I had a hysterectomy and the incision was gigantic. It was like a ten inch incision across my belly and so like trying to recover from that while covid was happening like it was just a mess and so I kind of had this grief of my dad and then the grief of the loss like the sounds I mean i. It kind of sounds crazy but it it felt so strange like to be in the operating room and they took this all they took they took my uterus and my fallopian tubes they left my ovaries but they took the.

40:34.95
danielle
Place where my baby grew where my son grew and they just threw it in the garbage. They just like took it out of my body and threw it in a bin that said medical waste and I felt this huge sense of loss again like this just this like grief ah like grieving this part of my body and this. Time in my life like I could never be pregnant again like they’ve literally taken the organ that would like I you know and um and so that I was running away from that I was really um, again mad and sad and. Literally in pain because I had this giant incision to recover from took about 2 years for it to fully heal and I completely like I thought okay I can either stay sad and mad or I can use my artist’s superpower. Because artists have the superpower to turn terrible things into something beautiful or to express you can you know so many people just have to pack it down artists actually have a way of like letting it out and expressing it in a way. So I thought that’s what I’m gonna do. So. That’s what the big show last March was and it was called self-p preservvation because it was truly self- preservation for my brain. Um oh I can’t hear you anymore. Oh there you go? Yeah, um.

41:54.94
charukaarora
I Oh yes I’m like yeah and so can you made those cigarette Buts All yeah yeah.

42:01.55
danielle
Yeah, so then I made all these little specimen jars and instead of um because the things that they take out of you I’ve had surgeries for fibroids and cysts and like I think this hysterectomy was like my fifth surgery and the things they take out of you are pretty gross right? and they were telling me how gross my uterus was that it was misshapen in this and that and.

42:11.32
charukaarora
My goodness. Yes.

42:21.32
danielle
Was the size of being six months pregnant and all these things and I mean that’s gross. You don’t want to think about these gross things in this place. It’s supposed to be this fertile ground where your baby grows. Yeah, and so I thought well I’m going to think of it a different way I’m going to picture it. Um, beautiful.

42:28.26
charukaarora
Put around.

42:39.50
danielle
And broken. So I started collecting broken pieces of jewelry old like ceramics from the thrift shop but I would smash them because I was mad and I wanted to smash stuff at you should try smashing stuff have you smashed anything? Oh oh, you should do it. It feels.

42:47.95
charukaarora
Um, ah nine not yet, but I should.

42:59.27
danielle
So good after my dad died a friend of mine gave me a coupon for an axe throwing place where you go and throw axes. Ah well don’t don’t throw an axe in public you might get arrested but smashing stuff with grief really helps. So I started smashing stuff and then.

43:04.38
charukaarora
Wow We don’t have it here but I would love that.

43:18.70
danielle
Putting things back together and I was putting them into these jars and at the same time I’d always you know over the years as I was having all these surgeries and they kept telling me what was growing in me being an artist I always have visuals in my head and so I always pictured my reproductive area like an ashtray.

43:30.60
charukaarora
So visuals. Yes, yes.

43:38.14
danielle
It just seemed like it was like you know after a party like the next morning there’s an ashtray and there’s like Cigarette Butts but there’s a bottle cap in there and there’s like you know a piece of old gum and it’s just like that’s what I felt like was my huterus and so I thought well I’m just.

43:39.37
charukaarora
Yeah, yeah, yes.

43:55.15
danielle
Gonna do that So I started like putting these beautiful things mixed together with garbage and that’s what the self-pressation became. It was like I was preserving these artifacts. Um, and I I poured resin in the jar so it looked like formaldehyde like it looked like little like natural history museum.

43:57.18
charukaarora
And.

44:13.75
charukaarora
Yeah, so.

44:14.78
danielle
Specimens but it was actually the self preservation of my sanity because I just needed a way to articulate all of this and kind of turn the narrative around because it was going downhill really fast.

44:29.41
charukaarora
I Think you know there’s something very important that you’ve mentioned here because I think um, a I do feel I don’t know if you feel that way I think a loss like this has at least made me a lot more sensitive. Um towards a lot of emotions I think. I Feel as a normal person I think I feel um things a lot more elevated. Um more like um, let’s say if it’s and it’s it’s it’s confusing Honestly, it’s It’s confusing at one point if there is something that’s happening I feel like I have so.

44:54.57
danielle
Ah.

45:06.37
charukaarora
Such a big loss that I feel in my body and soul that even I don’t feel ah in control of and when I feel something like then I have dealt with this and it numbs you out to a lot of things but it on the contrary. It’s also made me so much more sensitive in the sense that.

45:16.94
danielle
Yeah, 1

45:24.67
charukaarora
If something is close to me and I think I have a fear like you said like you know it was a place where your your own son came from so it meant something to you and to someone it would be just a piece of biology or a body part that has no purpose or like but for you Yes, yes.

45:32.35
danielle
Yeah I.

45:38.13
danielle
Um, yeah, taking your gall bladder out. Yeah yeah.

45:43.56
charukaarora
But for you, um it was it was it was it was a part of you. It was a part of your Sonny. It was yeah.

45:48.92
danielle
Yeah, it was almost sacred yeah and because before I had him I’d had a few surgeries and they basically said we’re not sure if you can even get pregnant like give it a try but we don’t really know and. And then I did get pregnant and I had this beautiful baby and we only got to have one um and then they just took out the thing and they threw it away and it was just like but wait what you know and and I know that that organ doesn’t make me a woman.

46:15.42
charukaarora
Yeah.

46:23.64
danielle
But there’s something very I mean it kind of does in a way you know and so having them just throw it away and like it’s incinerated and you’re like oh okay and so I really did feel like I mean if anybody is listening that is having a hard time with.

46:23.80
charukaarora
Um, yeah, um.

46:40.90
danielle
Whatever it is. It could be anything using our art as a way to process that you you don’t have to show that art to anyone ever. There doesn’t need to be an exhibition. You don’t ever need to sell it but almost as arts therapy like as a way of processing it and I had over 3000 clay cigarettes ah, in all of these sculptures and stuff and just sitting there making these clay cigarettes was so meditative you know and I would just sit down in my studio for like you know 6 hours at a time just rolling out clay putting it down rolling it coat putting it down and when as I was doing that.

47:04.24
charukaarora
Who was.

47:19.35
danielle
It kind of let me process everything and think about everything and have a cry and have an aha moment and keep on rolling and then you know it was very it was like therapy and if nobody ever saw that work.

47:31.40
charukaarora
I am here.

47:37.90
danielle
Didn’t really care because it was so important and necessary to me. Um, and I think that’s ah something that we’re so blessed with creative people. You know that we can we can use we can use it to heal to heal ourselves and hopefully other people.

47:47.60
charukaarora
Um, and my agree. Yes, yeah, you know so when after my mom so I felt like I still feel like in this juggle where I feel like so I’m pretty young Ben. Of course when I lost my mom I was just I was 27 where I lost my mom and I I kept on thinking about so I’m the youngest um out of my siblings and they have children and they they have they have their own families and then my father got really settled.

48:12.26
danielle
And.

48:21.19
charukaarora
And I so I I kept on feeling that instability and sense of loss that only felt elevated and elevated and I was so scared even though like I felt like I I became these 2 people one who was so much um, bothered and.

48:33.99
danielle
On the.

48:41.10
charukaarora
Invested in the loss that I found but also the old me who was who was working very hard who wanted who had all these ambitions and dreams and I felt like if I was going in either way, a little bit more I I was losing something because if I felt so much drowned in the chief I.

48:45.57
danielle
Are.

48:54.52
danielle
I.

49:00.90
charukaarora
I was still feeling the loss of my own dreams because I knew that if I was going down that rabbit hole I I was losing a big part of who I wanted to become and also that was a ticket to to gaining something because I I knew that I needed to make a lot of things on my own from here and.

49:08.14
danielle
Right.

49:19.54
charukaarora
But my soul and my body also required that slowdown and I was so so scared of stepping into the studio because the moment I would have and I think that was also something because the moment I would have one moment she I would I would I would have these.

49:23.20
danielle
Yeah, yeah.

49:37.31
charukaarora
I am a big time overthink like I can literally overthink and overthink and and I think a lot of ask and that’s that’s also makes us sensitive to towards thinking things that um, a lot of people may not and I was so scared of being in the studio because I was like if I become if I am alone.

49:40.38
danielle
Meetler.

49:47.36
danielle
Yeah, yeah.

49:55.73
charukaarora
For even a little while I don’t know what’s going to happen I Just don’t know harm good to and and I threw myself in work and honestly I do also feel I’m grateful for that because if I didn’t have this I I don’t know where would I be because I would I would literally drown myself into that. But you’re right I cried.

50:00.38
danielle
And yeah.

50:12.43
danielle
Ah.

50:15.63
charukaarora
I wrote I I felt like a failure I felt like anything like as terrible as I could but then I picked up myself back and I invested all of those feelings into my work and here’s my question someone who’s also feeling grieve.

50:26.28
danielle
Over.

50:33.44
charukaarora
Especially I think this is as an artist. Um, you know like you said you know taking your time making art for yourself. But I think in the past two years I today I reached a point that I feel like art has is my survival. It’s It’s it’s not a profession. It’s it’s not a passion It’s not a choice I as a person need this to process who I am my feelings because if I don’t do that it becomes too hard for me to even get through a day I need that to survive. But.

51:02.71
danielle
I Yeah that.

51:06.50
charukaarora
There’s another side to it I want to be an artist I I also want to be successful I want to have all those fancy things or maybe at least I think experience them and know that if I want it or not I think they’re 2 different things. But when you’re in a state like that I think.

51:15.00
danielle
Yeah, yeah.

51:22.74
charukaarora
I have felt this juggle where I feel like I want to make this for myself. But I also want all of those things and I feel like I’m losing out on them. What you say.

51:29.10
danielle
Right? I think um I think we live in such a time where everything feels like you have to do it now and the thing is there’s time there is time and um. You know I Purposely haven’t sold any of the work that was in that big exhibition. It feels way too personal and I had people reach out and want to buy things and I was like no um, which seems crazy because I invested so much time and money into all the work but it just I’m gonna let that.

51:53.34
charukaarora
No.

52:04.40
danielle
That experience and that work pushed me to the next series that I then will sell and whatever and so I think it’s so important to remember like to just give yourself that time and space like if you took a year to just make work that was about. Your mom and grief and all the crazy things and nothing happens. You’d never show that work or whatever I think there’s so much value in that because it’s gonna get you somewhere. New. It’s gonna help you through the pain. It’s gonna and in this meantime your hands are still working. You’re still.

52:35.23
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

52:43.17
danielle
Like I feel the same way if I haven’t made anything in a few days I am so grouchy and I need it. It’s like error for me, you know and I think and I think but we live in such a like Instagram world where things have to happen so fast and there have to be likes and we have to sell and we have to dinner and we don’t um, there is plenty of time.

52:44.64
charukaarora
Um, yeah, yeah, yes, same.

52:57.90
charukaarora
That’s.

53:03.10
danielle
Ah, and if you’re trying to ah show and sell and all that stuff in a moment when you’re not ready to do that. You’re not going to be ready for that success. Anyway, you know you’re gonna you’re just gonna be if you’re you need to give yourself time to heal.

53:16.76
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

53:20.30
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

53:22.94
danielle
And I wanted to say 1 thing about that grounded feeling like um, what I said to my mom afterwards was that like my mom and dad are both. Ah, they’re very different and they were always together they were they were married for fifty years but but.

53:42.92
danielle
I go to my mom for some things I go to my dad for other things. Do you know what? I mean and and I was forty. How old was I 46 I think when my dad 46 or 47 when my dad died I instantly felt like a 5 year old

53:43.36
charukaarora
Yes, yeah.

54:01.72
danielle
Like I instantly was like where’s my dad like I instantly felt that you know not like a woman with a husband and a child and a mortgage I felt like a little kid and I said to my mom that I felt like it and I still feel like this that that like 2 legs of my table.

54:01.85
charukaarora
Um, yeah type.

54:19.54
charukaarora
Yes, we am.

54:20.96
danielle
Fell you know what? I mean like she holds up this side of the table. My dad held up this side of the table and I could go either way depending on what I needed. You know the kind of advice I needed or the kind of ear that I needed or whatever and my dad that part of it’s just gone and I just felt so unbalanced and so. Um, like I was just grasping for anything you know like I just ah I messaged him on Facebook because we used to talk on Facebook every day I messaged him on Facebook for about a year after he died. And I would just message and be like hi dad here’s what’s going on you know or if like I got my kid’s book deal and I was so excited because he I told him about the idea of the book and he was so proud of me for pitching it and I didn’t get the deal until after he had passed so I I I I messaged it.

54:59.41
charukaarora
Oh well.

55:10.56
charukaarora
Um.

55:12.29
danielle
Facebook and I was like dad guess what? And then I mean it broke my heart that there was no three little dots seeing that he was writing back. But and I mean I felt kind of crazy but I just needed to tell him stuff and I felt so brokenhearted that he wasn’t there to tell and.

55:21.42
charukaarora
Um, no.

55:30.25
danielle
My mom is very very like enlightened and very spiritual and she she talks to my dad like every day and so she’s like you can still just talk to dad like you can still just tell him stuff and I’m like I know but I just want him. Yeah I just want to phone him.

55:42.28
charukaarora
I could hear him you can’t hear it back from him. Yeah.

55:47.45
danielle
Yeah, and she said but and it’s true though if I if I ask him something I know I have known in my whole life I know what he would say you know if I’m like oh dad I’m frustrated because you know I’m not getting you know advancing my career fast enough or whatever I know what he would say.

55:54.11
charukaarora
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

56:05.68
danielle
You know? and so it’s like I can almost hear him. It’s like yeah I know okay settle down just keep doing what I’m doing you know and so they’re there. They’re there with you you know and um, it’s just it’s been 4 year we just passed the 4 our-year anniversary of my dad and i.

56:11.12
charukaarora
Um I Love that.

56:22.97
danielle
Still like that my table will never be even again, you know and I love my mom so much. Um, but it’s just they’re just different. They were just different energies and just they provided different things to me and my siblings and I just I never will never have that side of my table back and I just have to learn how to live.

56:23.32
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

56:30.19
charukaarora
2

56:41.95
charukaarora
With yeah and no and that’s true and I think I felt I So ah like you said you go to your mom for certain things in you and I you I had my mom for everything. So.

56:42.67
danielle
Differently. And yeah.

56:52.86
danielle
Yeah.

56:54.91
charukaarora
We had this relationship that she was She was one and all and I suddenly felt like like everything because I it it was literally like both the light skin now and I so you used to message and I still have some I used to Journal like I still German but.

57:03.85
danielle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

57:13.58
charukaarora
After her so my journal basically became became like a letter every morning it became like a letter to her and I needed that outlet and I was like I would even like I would feel crazy because I was like I know she’s not going to read this I I know that. This journal will never go out in the world because it’s it’s 1 thing that’s only for me with me and I never want anybody to see it ever. But for some reason I just needed to feel that one and I think as ah as when you as a child specifically. Like we all. Even though she was the center we all had like with your parents you all have separate relationships like what was between me and my mother was a personal relationship me and my sister was their relationship and for once I felt like I needed that I needed that something that was just me and her and then I had like today I have this huge this.

57:52.60
danielle
Yeah.

58:03.71
danielle
Yeah.

58:09.17
charukaarora
Big Journal That’s that’s just me and her and and every day in the morning. That’s that’s something I do and it’s become like ah if if I skip a few days and I’m like I feel like I’m missing out I’m I’m not been able to speak to over like and the strange part is that when you when you have them, You don’t show life.

58:19.42
danielle
Oh.

58:27.95
charukaarora
How much stronger part of the system they are unless you lose them.

58:30.90
danielle
Yeah, yeah I know and it also just feels like you’re never going to like you just see you know and then all of a sudden and especially if it is sudden and they’re just gone and you didn’t get to say the things you know you wanted to say or whatever. Yeah, it’s.

58:36.37
charukaarora
And.

58:44.31
charukaarora
Yeah I guess.

58:49.20
danielle
Just such a um, such a process to get your head around you know and I’m sure you’ve heard the story of my of my dad he was in Jamaica when he died and he was there to run a marathon and then so.

58:59.44
charukaarora
Yes, yes.

59:05.76
danielle
We had all of the red tape of all the government stuff of trying to get him home and it was just like it just felt like trauma on top of trauma and then we were speaking to police officers and all this stuff like from Jamaica to Canada and like it was just a nightmare and um.

59:24.75
danielle
It was just too much to process I Think at the time. Yeah, and so but I think I’m I mean I I don’t know what you believe but like I I feel my dad around all the time like I I know like right after he passed. Um.

59:26.28
charukaarora
Deal with yes.

59:43.80
danielle
I could feel it felt like a hot hand on my back. Um, like I felt like I could I thought my husband had his hand on my back like that’s what it felt like and there’s nobody there and every now and then if I’m feeling like if I’m having a really hard time I’ll feel that.

59:55.60
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

01:00:00.29
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

01:00:02.38
danielle
Feel that pressure on my back and I just feel like it’s my dad just being like you know it’s okay, like you know you’re good. You know and I you know and so I just I have to believe that he’s nearby because I still need him. You know I still need him.

01:00:10.36
charukaarora
Um, yeah, yeah I buy my mom’s clothes every day every day I don’t let go of for like if there’s something that’s happening and I I’ve.

01:00:20.60
danielle
Yeah.

01:00:25.21
charukaarora
Every constant thing I feel like she should be her This is this is her moment. This was her and I’m like I just I would I would be I started believing it next like she did or continue things that she would do and nobody’s doing right now or wear her clothes because she loved them crazy. She was like.

01:00:36.54
danielle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:43.10
charukaarora
She was obsessed. She was obsessed with the jewelry her clothes and and suddenly and that and I think even my aunt and I felt like this was 1 thing that was between me and her and now I feel like I want to take this forward. Um, it’s made me more comfortable with who I am I think the past of years even as an artist. Even as an artist I have felt like um I have embraced my own roots because she’s I think she’s gone to the ground like I feel that now that she is a part of my road and I need to embrace that and I feel more comfortable and I feel feel more grateful for how I grew up and you know the culture and she was my source of like she.

01:01:08.35
danielle
I hear.

01:01:21.87
charukaarora
She was an artist for me. She was she was an amazing artist so she was one person who and you’d like you said you know I come from like India’s a very beach country and you know so she would be constantly we that one push you know you need to keep going. You need to make this for yourself. You know.

01:01:23.60
danielle
M.

01:01:30.71
danielle
M.

01:01:38.94
charukaarora
Don’t get married until you feel ready and like all of those things that you wouldn’t probably hear from so she was very different than she had those and unfulfilled desires of living a life and she would always tell me you know what? you need to do this like she would really always help me I’m every time I feel like.

01:01:52.52
danielle
Oh.

01:01:58.69
charukaarora
I Feel like I’m not moving forward and I would think like this is what she would want of me and she would never like that I you know and it really gives me a push spin.

01:02:06.47
danielle
That they that you stop. Yeah, it’s so cool because you know you you’re still so young and you have so much ahead of you and it’s so interesting like the loss is still very fresh like 2 years is not very long. Um. But I can just picture you being like you know a 70 year old artist who’s showing you know at Moma your your retrospective and the things that you’re figuring out now about yourself and about understanding how important. Root your roots are and your roots to her and the fact that she was different and and was pushing you to be a strong independent woman. Not pressuring you to get married and have babies and you know that’s going to feed into all of the art whether it’s like really ah. Obvious or not all of that is gonna be there all of your experiences are gonna feed into that and I can’t even wait to see what you’re making in your thirty s and 40 s and 50 s because this is where it’s all starting. You know when I went to art school I was so confused because. I hadn’t really nothing had happened to me I had nothing nothing to express I you know was from a nice little white middle class family in Canada and there was nothing I was like I don’t know like I had nothing to say in my art right? But now I’ve lived some life I’ve experienced.

01:03:32.57
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

01:03:36.82
danielle
Good things and bad things and joy and sorrow and I finally have ah things I want to say through my art and um, you know your mom would be so proud that you’re harnessing this stuff.

01:03:43.00
charukaarora
Yes.

01:03:53.34
danielle
Living the life that you want to live with her as you know your strength your roots like how beautiful is that like what a way to honor her. You know.

01:03:55.55
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

01:04:01.74
charukaarora
Thank you, thank you? Okay, tell me something on another note, how does it feel to be do you feel. There’s a strife between becoming being Daniel and being the jealous curator like.

01:04:07.40
danielle
Okay.

01:04:20.97
charukaarora
As an artist but then also someone like you know the it’s it’s it’s like a it’s like it’s 2 different places, 2 different identities. Ah and 1 person.

01:04:34.70
danielle
Um, yeah, yeah, it does feel. But yeah, it does feel very like 2 personalities.

01:04:38.17
charukaarora
How how? what are your thoughts on that. Yes.

01:04:47.26
danielle
And like I said earlier you know sometimes with my Danielle chrissa artwork I think ooh with the joll curator write about this. So I I do have that split even when I’m working like I’ll have days where I’m like I’m just gonna be in the studio today. So that’s Danielle chrisa day and then I have days where like. I’m working on marketing the book or I’m writing my newsletter or whatever those are my doll’s curator days so it is weird. It does feel like 2 different things. But there’s I couldn’t give up either of them I love them both so much and it’s kind of cool because for the first.

01:05:16.33
charukaarora
Yes, but.

01:05:23.10
danielle
Several years of Joll’s curator I kept my identity completely secret. So nobody knew that Danielle like that’s why my picture on Doll’s curator is the the polaroid over my face I kept my identity completely secret for years three years I think and um.

01:05:26.10
charukaarora
Oh well. With you.

01:05:41.86
danielle
And so and and part of that was because I didn’t feel like my artwork was up to par I was nervous that if people you know they wouldn’t think Danielle Crisa’s art was good enough compared to the jealous curator. Um, so yeah I just I kind of kept it secret and then now.

01:05:50.57
charukaarora
Yes, um.

01:06:00.52
danielle
I mean it’s been what am I coming up on 14 years yeah oh my gosh in February February Twenty second will be 14 years so now I feel like in the last few years things have merged together a lot more and I’m more confident with my art.

01:06:02.54
charukaarora
Wow! No it.

01:06:11.45
charukaarora
Um, yes.

01:06:17.96
danielle
Probably because of people like Penny Lane you know doing consultations with her and getting her to really push me and then working with peta coin for that you know couple of years and really just believing in myself like my dad was my biggest cheerleader like he he was framing my art when I was a little kid you know and he. He’s the one that told me what I was a science major in my first year of university and he’s the one that told me to switch to fine art. Um, so yeah, and so the fact that like um I’m really doing this now.

01:06:40.10
charukaarora
Um, I know I ever that.

01:06:53.37
danielle
Um, he would be so proud and and so I mean he was also ridiculously proud of the jealous curator and the books and everything and so he loved Facebook so constantly on Facebook he would be like listen to what Danielle did and he would like do a big post about whatever. So um.

01:06:55.68
charukaarora
Um, and the proud.

01:07:06.40
charukaarora
Um, yes.

01:07:12.10
danielle
But I just feel like he would be really proud that I’m I’m living the life of an artist and so that kind of pushes me forward. But yeah, it’s nice. Joe’s curator and and Danielle Priso have kind of become a little more connected now which feels better. To me now in my own. Yeah.

01:07:29.45
charukaarora
Yeah, yeah, because I think there’s like sometimes I feel this drive. Um, where I feel like and also like I don’t know I don’t know what’s going to happen in future if but there are always these questions that you keep am I doing. Because there’s always like you. We all have only so much of time and there’s a whole life like comes in the way and then you consciously need to make a choice that you know do you want to invest this what is where do you want to put this time right now in and I’m like.

01:07:48.49
danielle
Right.

01:07:59.16
danielle
Yeah.

01:08:01.80
charukaarora
Even though I feel like I want to go be but life happens and something happens I’m like I need to take care of this and I keep asking myself am I like like also like this kind of guilt like a back of the mind like.

01:08:13.82
danielle
Ah, yeah.

01:08:18.42
charukaarora
Am I not putting myself first and ask my art enough or is it just moment of time because this is what’s the best but did you in your earlier years did you feel like um, your art was taking a backseat or um.

01:08:20.20
danielle
Oh.

01:08:32.47
danielle
Oh totally? Yeah, my art was completely about it was oh that was fine with me because I was so mortified by the thought of anyone seeing my work that I didn’t want people to see it I was so embarrassed.

01:08:36.84
charukaarora
How did it deal with that.

01:08:51.13
danielle
And um, and then even once I did start showing because I have pushy friends that own galleries that I met through Jealous curator and once they found out I made art. They forced me to show my work and I would just I wouldn’t even promote the shows I wouldn’t even tell people that it was happening. Um.

01:09:05.62
charukaarora
And no.

01:09:11.60
danielle
And but it was really like once I met peta because I had her on my podcast and I was doing my usual interview interviewing her and she kept interviewing me. She kept being like well tell me about your work I’m like what no I’m trying to interview you and she’s like well I really want to know about you. And after the call was over she said I would really love to work with you because I think there’s so much potential I I think you’re really smart and talented and I would love to like work with you and I was like ah okay and that was in 2019 and that was what it. That was really I think it felt like a new cheerleader like it felt like somebody being like and she didn’t get mad at me but she got a little bit like well. What do you want? and I said I want she said do you want to be a commercial artist or a museum artist or not an artist at all or an author or like what do you want.

01:09:47.64
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

01:10:06.49
danielle
And I said I want to be a museum artist I want to see my work in Moma one day and she was like okay well let’s go do that? Um, that said I still have written kids you know my kids books and I’m still doing whatever. Um.

01:10:17.14
charukaarora
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:21.86
danielle
But I just I just manage my time and I don’t feel like I need to be doing both every day you know if I only get to this studio now a couple times a week then so be it. It’s not gone. It’s there but I’m busy this week and I’ll get to it. Um.

01:10:23.96
charukaarora
Um, yes.

01:10:34.31
charukaarora
Are.

01:10:37.80
danielle
And then sometimes I don’t do very much with the jolls curator like I took that huge break from the podcast and just focused on my work but you know while I was taking a break from the podcast I was still writing my newsletter every day I was still posting to Instagram every day. So I I just find a way to balance it because I love them both so much. Um, I’m also a mom but my son is 16 now so he doesn’t care where I am anymore when I start when I started jealous curator. He was two so it was really tricky right? I would yeah I would basically write posts when he was napping. Um, and then you know now he’s sixteen and a half and he’s

01:11:03.52
charukaarora
Ah, oh my god.

01:11:14.52
charukaarora
Um, did you ever sorry, go ahead.

01:11:15.64
danielle
Never home. So I think being what is this gonna say I I know I know exactly where you’re gonna say did I ever think I’d still be going at this stage. No absolutely not I thought it would be a neat little thing to do it was you know.

01:11:25.47
charukaarora
Ah, yes, so.

01:11:32.21
danielle
It was gonna be therapy for me to get me back into the art world and that was about it I never thought I’d have readers I never thought I’d be writing books like I Never that was none of this was a plan it just sort of organically happened and I I’m an overachiever so I went with it and and then ah. Yeah, and so it’s kind of amazing that it’s been this long but I think being a mom too and being so busy I was a full-time graphic designer I was running jealous curator and I had a toddler. Um I got really good at time management and now that he’s 16 I feel like ah.

01:11:59.71
charukaarora
So yeah.

01:12:07.86
charukaarora
Um, yes I have so much that yeah yeah, I love what miss oh my god I have three I have 3 yeah I have three i.

01:12:11.15
danielle
Um, got all the time in the world. Yeah, so of course we got a puppy and so now she takes all my time. But yeah, yeah, she’s so yeah, you do.

01:12:24.64
charukaarora
They so my so they my mom and I loved like we like they are my peace of heart like I can’t live without them and ever since she’s gone I would always be like a little sister like their big sister but ever since she’s gone I feel like I have 3 children now that I need to think about and like.

01:12:31.42
danielle
The yes. So.

01:12:38.00
danielle
Um, yeah, yes.

01:12:44.35
charukaarora
Like if they wouldn’t be there I don’t think I would have even made these last two years because oh my God dogs have so much love to take and give and they give you so much warmth that I don’t think anybody else can ever give.

01:12:53.71
danielle
Yes, yeah, nope they just snuggle right up and make everything better and okay and yeah, absolutely yeah now I’m like ah it’s perfect because Charlie’s he’s

01:13:02.37
charukaarora
So you’re like another child now.

01:13:10.42
danielle
We’re just talking in the car on the way to school today. He’s he’s going gonna be gone to college in a year and a half and so I was like ah I’m gonna need more dogs gonna get 12 puppies and that’s the only thing that’ll get me through yeah kind of.

01:13:12.63
charukaarora
Red Culppit yes

01:13:22.23
charukaarora
Ah, oh my God Yes, yeah, but the burden in that be a dream.

01:13:29.84
danielle
Yeah I would have no time for the podcast or art or anything.

01:13:31.29
charukaarora
Ah, ah, ah, no, so you know when I used to record so when I was recording for the past Season. So I would have all my 3 girls like they would sleep on the bi with me. And I would set up cozy on on the desk and I know that all of them are sleeping and one of them snows so hard So I would like literally put her under blankets and like but I love that way like it I just made it work because I really wanted to make it work and I was like I I still love recording with them in the room.

01:14:00.88
danielle
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, oh my gosh. That’s so cute. Yeah I don’t know where agnes is somebody’s keeping her.

01:14:03.80
charukaarora
Because if they’re out there anyways will keep scratching the door and keep coming in I’m like I dont sleep here. Snore Do whatever you want with beer. Okay, tell me where is she.

01:14:19.53
danielle
I Think she’s sleeping on the couch I think my husband’s keeping her um, behaving nicely as soon as I close this door. She she panics like she thinks I’m trapped in here. So she’s going to come and rescue me and anyway oh she She was bad today. She was running through the snow and she ran up our mountain and wouldn’t come back and oh my god.

01:14:23.19
charukaarora
Ah, yes, you see so one person.

01:14:39.48
danielle
Anyway, she came back eventually. Yeah, she Ah, she’s a very yes, she’s she can be very naughty anyway I digress. Yeah.

01:14:40.95
charukaarora
You’ve called naughty child fo and natty. Yeah, okay, tell me what’s coming what you I I want to but I want this episode to be about Daniel I love jealous curator I know there’s a lot of jealousator out there. But for some reason I wanted this I wanted this episode to be about Dan and crisa. I’m going to ask you first What and what is Daniel looking forward to now where like I feel like a lot is going to happen for you like in the past two years ah like it’s of course we’ve heard about Alice Kuri but I think Daniel took over a lot of you this time.

01:15:23.47
danielle
Yeah, yeah, well I joined a ceramic studio I’ve always wanted to do ceramics and um I thought I couldn’t do it I was basically told in art school that I wasn’t good with making things with my hands. So I somehow believed that.

01:15:23.56
charukaarora
So What’s coming. What are you like. And yes, I’ve done that.

01:15:40.22
danielle
Um, but my friend owns the studio and so I just took ah a class there to support her and then I was like oh oh boy and then I joined as a member and so I’ve been um, working on a whole bunch of when I was in Venice ah for the bean alle in the summertime. It was a really.

01:15:45.22
charukaarora
This is it.

01:15:59.77
danielle
Weird magical experience I’ve been there. This was my fourth year but it was very witchy. Very feminine witch related because um, the the title of the bienale this year was milk of dreams which is a.

01:16:07.90
charukaarora
Um, wow.

01:16:18.70
danielle
A book that Leonora Carrington had written for her children and she was um, kind of witchy and an alchemist and a surrealist painter and so a lot of the theme of the show was her and her you know, ah other female artists that were working in a similar way.

01:16:29.31
charukaarora
Shown.

01:16:37.90
danielle
And then in the group that I was there with um I met a couple of women who I just completely bonded with and it just felt really like I don’t know there was just something in the air and so all I could keep picturing was slabs of ceramics. In collage form. So I normally cut things out of paper and collage them. But all I could picture was like pieces of Clay. Um all individually fired and glazed and then put back together as a collage. Ah and I was like so I’m messaging my friend who owns the studio and I was like if I did.

01:17:09.93
charukaarora
Oh that.

01:17:15.68
danielle
This and this with this work and she was like yeah we could try it and I was like okay and then I message her again is there a glow in the dark glaze and she was like what and so anyway so I came back and I basically just spent the whole fall and winter experimenting and making all these different bits and pieces and.

01:17:18.73
charukaarora
Um, yeah.

01:17:26.16
charukaarora
Who.

01:17:35.90
danielle
It’s finally kind of all coming together. Um, granted ceramics is really really slow. Yeah I’ve been making hands and snakes and combs and peach pits and all this stuff and I think people at the studio think I’m not.

01:17:38.54
charukaarora
Um, and loving those hands.

01:17:50.78
danielle
Because they’re they’re all making mugs and bowls and that I’m like this weird lady making like snakes and hair combs. But anyway, um, there is a master plan but at the same time I’ve been working on another kind of witchy series of paper collages of like these portraits of women. Um, because.

01:17:51.51
charukaarora
Um.

01:17:57.53
charukaarora
Ah, again.

01:18:09.73
danielle
It’s more immediate. It’s fast like I I need to be able to make art fast too and the ceramics is so slow that I needed another. Yeah so I’ve got these 2 series going but they’re both about the power of women and the alchemy that we kind of.

01:18:15.94
charukaarora
Um, slow.

01:18:27.83
danielle
Possess and like you know everything that’s been happening in the media like in the Us with like you know abortion rights being taken away and um, just patriarchy in general and have you know women kind of going hey no like I am done you know? and um, it’s sort of all about that. So.

01:18:41.10
charukaarora
Then.

01:18:47.90
danielle
It still has my tongue in cheek bit of humor ah mixed in with this sort of like Rah Raw women. Yeah so I have no idea I have I have no show lined up I’ve got nothing but I am making work like like as though I do yeah.

01:18:55.77
charukaarora
Um, and very excited. Yes, you have us lined up. You have asked lined up. We’re all waiting for you.

01:19:06.55
danielle
Exactly? Yeah, oh it’s I’m having so much fun. Yeah so I’m just doing that and um, just trying to connect with like you know, learn as much as I can like in the ceramic studio I’m trying to learn as much as I can I’ve been playing with resin like all these things I thought.

01:19:10.14
charukaarora
Both ways I think I’m very excited that.

01:19:25.64
charukaarora
2 3

01:19:26.16
danielle
I Couldn’t do I’ve sort of been like that makes no sense like why do I think I can’t do that So I’ve just been trying stuff and of course you know you make a bunch of mistakes but it’s like I just keep going and um I Yeah yeah, it’s been so much.

01:19:31.39
charukaarora
So. Yes, and that’s the fun part specifically in a creative like this.

01:19:45.83
danielle
Fine and then the the thing I’m super excited about which is Danielle krissa slash joll’s curator is the kids book it comes out in March and this is my second one. My first kid’s book. Yeah, how to spot an artist came out right in the middle of the pandemic. So the whole book tour got canceled.

01:19:55.20
charukaarora
Yay I Love them how to spot an artist. Yes, oh yes, Yes, yes.

01:20:03.63
danielle
And my dream my whole life has been to read a book I wrote to kids and I’ve done lots of book tours for my grown-up books but everything for my kids book got canceled. So this one comes out in March so I’m like out of control like booking things so that and I just I want to be. Lady that comes and the weird art lady that reads this story to a bunch of weird art kids like I’m so excited. So I’ve got a few dates and cities set already and I’m just gonna so okay deal did you know.

01:20:28.73
charukaarora
And come to India.

01:20:38.93
danielle
Did you hear me talking that my parents went to India right before my dad died. Yeah that that was like it was for their fiftieth wedding anniversary. My dad my mom has always wanted to go to India so my dad planned this six week trip to India and Nepal.

01:20:41.34
charukaarora
No I don’t know about that.

01:20:58.63
danielle
And ah it was so crazy because my dad they came home and he’s showing me all of his pictures and his favorite part so they flew around they got a little plane and flew around the top of Everest and did the whole thing and they went to the taj mahal they did all this his favorite I know you do I know you do.

01:21:08.72
charukaarora
Calkati.

01:21:13.58
charukaarora
Um, oh I live in nagrad I Yeah yeah.

01:21:17.95
danielle
He said his favorite part was and this was Crazy. He told me this 10 days before he died his favorite part was ah the cremations on the ganges River He loved it. He said it was the most. I was like what I was like dad. That’s so morbid and he’s like no, it’s not morbid at All. He’s like it’s so beautiful and he said there’s marigolds everywhere and he said people are so happy because it’s that if you if that if you get permission Um, to.

01:21:40.40
charukaarora
Yes.

01:21:50.85
charukaarora
Yeah, do that? Yes, yes, yeah, it’s like the holy place in India.

01:21:53.89
danielle
That means it’s a quicker path to heaven right? Yes, and so my dad was like he yeah and he just thought it was the most beautiful thing and that’s all he talked about and then and then he died and I was like oh I wish we could have set you free on the ganges dad.

01:22:10.97
charukaarora
Yeah, oh.

01:22:13.12
danielle
Um, and so actually I have a pair of his cowboy boots and I have some ah paper Mag Um Marolds on on his boots because he but it’s so funny. Yeah, so they had just been there and yeah and he’d bought my mom some fancy drawry She was like what do you do we spenitt so much.

01:22:24.13
charukaarora
That’s oh wow.

01:22:32.55
danielle
Money on this trip and and but now she wears them every day and yeah, so anyway it was kind of neat. Yeah.

01:22:35.76
charukaarora
Ah, the I love that I love that I am very short like you would love. And yeah, so bad. So I think he so recently gone to golden temple like just before the new year and like you know. Just sharing because how you’ve been you just shared like you know the Saraham make the part like you’ll find so much in like you’ll you’ll never feel like an odd one out because that’s what a lot of like you know the temple is made out of sere makes um, pieces coming together and it’s like whole like.

01:23:06.57
danielle
Oh.

01:23:11.93
charukaarora
You would go crazy I’m telling you because I was like I do not want to go back and there’s so many like it’s like a heaven and that’s what I really like like and enjoy about your work because I feel like um, that tactileness and that surface and experimentation and like pieces coming together.

01:23:14.21
danielle
Yeah, yeah.

01:23:22.85
danielle
Oh. Well, even and like but when you were talking about the markets like I’ve heard like this my mom and dad had pictures of the spice markets like just the colors and the perfect like piles and everything I think I’d be in heaven too. Okay, okay, deal.

01:23:29.72
charukaarora
For you I think it’ll be like a yes oh my god scholars come I’ll take you around. Let’s do that and then we’ll make collato and like ah we’ll be like those 2 like and I have a beautiful studio here also that you can like buy the river and like oh my god wouldn’t make it. Let’s do that. Yes, bring Agnes. Also I would be so nice.

01:23:47.90
danielle
Okay.

01:23:55.13
danielle
My God that sounds like a dream. Okay, ah ah.

01:24:05.82
charukaarora
Thank you so much Dan and I had so so much fun I know this wasn’t like a typical your journey or like um episode. But.

01:24:11.30
danielle
No, this was so this was so good because sometimes I feel like I could talk about my dad all day long and I feel like oh I really shouldn’t keep going there and this was like a really nice chance to talk about it and I think it is so important it’s part of life. Everyone’s.

01:24:19.18
charukaarora
No no. Yes I.

01:24:29.25
danielle
Experienced it and I you know everyone that’s listening now I’m sure are artists and if if hopefully we can help them Channel you know if they’re feeling grief as well or anything you know anything that’s tough just to remember that um art art can save you.

01:24:44.97
charukaarora
Yeah, and I really want to add on to this is like I had a hard type that you are like you know the social media floodted with people throwing back and like all the achievements and like things happening and like this I felt like so I bent into a major panic zone for the last couple of.

01:24:48.10
danielle
Yeah.

01:25:04.40
charukaarora
Days because I felt like I did not want to look back at this. Yeah I didn’t want to like I felt like when I lost my mom I felt like I was having a very hard time and that was a difficult year but 2022 felt so much harder because what has had happened had happened but everything kept like it was like a. Pile of loss that just kept on you know coming together and I was on social media and I felt like I do not want this to be a new year I just don’t want this I don’t like and I was like you know I had to give into it so I didn’t make any posts I didn’t you know and I was like you know I do not want to rush myself.

01:25:23.35
danielle
Yeah, yeah.

01:25:42.40
charukaarora
And anybody who’s who’s who feels the way I do at the moment that it’s okay, if you’re not ready for something new and you you still are waiting for something and if you don’t want to participate. It’s okay I think I made that yeah.

01:25:52.65
danielle
Yeah, you’re not gonna miss out on anything you you have to take care of yourself. The world will still be there Instagram will still be there. You’re not gonna lose you know sales or this or that you have to take care of yourself. Otherwise there’s nothing left. Later when you are feeling better. You know like you just have to go into your cocoon if you need to. We’ll all be here waiting when you come out. Yeah yeah.

01:26:10.21
charukaarora
Yes, yes. So yes and you for you. Thank you so much I am very very excited to share this episode with our listeners One last thing if you have anything before we end this episode where people of course people know where to find you but anything that you want people. To share before we call.

01:26:33.31
danielle
Yeah, you could just find me at the jells curator on Instagram that’s probably the best place because I post there so often that you know there’ll be book stuff there and I have a direct link over to my art so that’s kind of the best hub of the place to go? yeah.

01:26:48.87
charukaarora
Do you Also want to mention something that I to you love? Um, the subscription your newsletters.

01:26:55.22
danielle
Oh yeah, yes I have a newsletter. It’s a daily newsletter. It’s called the no such thing as too much art society and it’s um yeah I write every Monday through Saturday and it costs $36 a month which is I mean a month a year so that’s

01:27:12.33
charukaarora
I I was I like I’m like no, that’s crazy crazy.

01:27:13.98
danielle
Three bucks no that’s not right $36 a year. so that’s $3 a month yeah so I did I did the math. It’s like ¢12 a day and I’m like wow I am really underpaying myself here. But um.

01:27:24.97
charukaarora
Yes, yes, yes.

01:27:29.32
danielle
That’s fine because I know that artists if they have extra money they want to spend it on guash and acrylic paint not on newsletter subscription. So I really wanted it to be not too expensive, but um I promise you it’s worth it because I’d feature an artist every day but then each day has a theme so there’s like. Monday motivation and every Wednesday there’s a ah creative jumpstart and so there’s lots and lots of good artsy content in there.

01:27:54.50
charukaarora
I I love 1 opening in mine box every day I love it. So I highly recommend it. What’s coming tomorrow.

01:28:00.74
danielle
Oh thank you so much. Thank you tomorrow? Well you’re already in tomorrow. Um, so let’s see what’s some Oh there’s a dear arty. Um, that’s ah, a new Therapy Thursday therapy that I’ve started and.

01:28:07.36
charukaarora
No.

01:28:18.20
danielle
I wrote the dear art letter this this week about about Ai it’s a hot topic I said please answer in the comments nicely with a little smiley because I it it can get very heated very quickly I’m just so curious because this this little.

01:28:22.19
charukaarora
Oh my good me That’s a hot topic. That’s.

01:28:33.51
charukaarora
Say that.

01:28:37.52
danielle
Community this newsletter community. There’s you know it’s not like my Instagram following is gigantic but this this newsletter is a much smaller group and everyone is so lovely and amazing. So when people do chime in on the dear arty you know the it’s like a. Play on dear Abby the comments are so thoughtful and so amazing. So I thought this Ai thing has just been crazy and I’m like I wonder what this crew thinks. Yeah and um, it’ll be really insightful. Hopefully nobody yells at me. But I just want to know what they think.

01:29:04.31
charukaarora
I Let be for King Yes guys. But.

01:29:13.77
danielle
Yeah, yeah, it’s coming. It’ll be there in 2 hours for you? yeah.

01:29:13.96
charukaarora
Yes, I’m excited I Want to see that. Yeah yes, ya thank you so far and thank you so much for your time I Really really appreciate this. Thank you again? ah.

01:29:26.53
danielle
Thank you so much for having me bye.

01:29:31.83
charukaarora
My ah.