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Ep 56. The next big thing in the Art world: What is Web3, Crypto, NFT’s & why artists should create their own creative economies w/ Tam Gryn, Head curator Showfields & Head of Fine art, Rally Creators

In the 56th Episode of The Arts to Hearts Podcast,
Podcast Host & founder of Arts to hearts project Charuka Arora is joined by head curator of Showfields & Head of Fine Art at Rally Creators, TAM GRYN.

Tam is a Curator. Pioneering new cultural and economic models at the intersection of art and other industries.

In this episode hear Tam talk about what is Web3 and why it is the Renaissance of the art world in the most simplest way possible

Why artists should create their own creative economies.

How to increase and regulate our own value as artists and so much more.


Juliana on instagram:

Juliana’s website:

Rally Creators’:



Charuka Arora, Founder of Arts To Hearts Project

Charuka On Instagram:


A collaboration between @artstoheartsproject & @visionaryartcollective

Guest curator: Victoria J Fry, Artist, educator & founder of visionary art collective

Theme: Home

Eligibility:Women artists across the globe

Deadline: 13th December 12 midnight EST



Timestamp Speaker Transcript
00:00.00 charukaarora Okay, yeah, so yeah, actually that’s a very good point. What I also feel is a lot of those gate peak key a lot of those gatekeepers and people who also make these rules are not the creators themselves I feel like. In any economy in any supply demand chain or any chain if the makers are not kept in the center of that economy. They are the ones that end up being exploited and being taken advantage of what is which is quite true in the case of artists.
00:27.90 Tam Gryn Um, wrote.
00:35.45 Tam Gryn Um, yeah.
00:35.47 charukaarora Like now especially with the traditional model model. The model is not made for them. It seems like now the artists are made for the model. Um I Understand the idea that you know of course like I have nothing I mean I Love Collaborations beat with a gallery or be with with other anyone. But what I feel is limiting is when a lot of artists are told when we’re told like you know, Um, if you do this,? Someone’s not going to work with you if you become independent this not this isn’t going to happen. Um, if you become to in like too Tech savvy.
01:05.42 Tam Gryn Um, yeah.
01:11.40 charukaarora People will think this or like you know these are very real real time fears. A lot of people have with a they feel they feel over when because I feel artists are already like it’s a lot of times majority of times. It’s a 1 man show. We are the producer the creator, the artist.
01:15.80 Tam Gryn Um, yeah.
01:30.45 charukaarora Social media The financer the accountant like from a to Z here everything and anything which is ah new especially technology is overwhelming for a lot of people who come ah from the arts because of course the adaptation is um, is still happening. Um, let’s let’s.
01:34.16 Tam Gryn Um, yeah.
01:46.49 Tam Gryn Um, yeah.
01:50.25 charukaarora I’m I’m just trying to beat this down a little bit more for people who are listening I Just want anyone who goes and listens to this entire episode. They are able to take 1 step forward. A we’re able to reduce their overall and B we at least we are able to give them 5 actionable tips like. How can they move if they have the interest How can they move forward. Um, 1 in creating their own communities I think a lot of us understand the concept of community right Now. Let’s talk about how kids yeah.
02:19.96 Tam Gryn Um I think wait I I’m going to stop you there because I think you know artists need to learn more about this web 3 movement before even starting to you know.
02:32.24 charukaarora Okay.
02:35.22 Tam Gryn Even if you tell an artist right now like go start your community I don’t think that’s the first step I think there needs to be a lot of education before an artist can like even know how to set up a web 3 style community they need to be part of another artist community before maybe.
02:42.92 charukaarora Yes.
02:51.63 charukaarora Yes, yes.
02:53.29 Tam Gryn Figure out like who are the leaders of this movement and what are they building and how are they building it in order to figure out like how does this translate to their own practices. Um, so I think you know because you know if I if I go right now and and I tell an artist like go on.
03:06.48 charukaarora Yes, that’s a very good point. Actually yeah yeah.
03:12.75 Tam Gryn Like start a discord and build a community like it. It needs to be authentic to what this movement is bringing right? and I think many artists are not interested in building communities to be honest with you I think a lot of artists are just interested in being in their studios and doing the work.
03:20.25 charukaarora Yeah.
03:27.14 charukaarora Yeah, yeah.
03:30.69 Tam Gryn And I think for this type of artist. Um, they need to get together with a lot of other types of artists like this and start communities together almost like collectives like artists collectives. Um, but step 1 is just to try to listen and learn and.
03:40.59 charukaarora Yes, yes, yes.
03:50.31 Tam Gryn Form part of other communities so that you understand like how important it is and what are they building and how are they communicating and how would this work for like ninety percent of artists out there.
03:51.67 charukaarora Yeah.
04:04.64 charukaarora Amazing. So yeah I I Actually you’ve reframed it very well. That’s that’s absolutely true for a lot of people who don’t know um about this. What are the great. What are good resources that you would recommend. Do you have any recommendations for people to start with.
04:21.85 Tam Gryn Yes I think it’s important to to read about like the web 3 creative economy in general you know there’s a lot of leaders in the space like Chris Dixon from Aic a 16 C which is a ah. Ah, fund that has invested in a lot of these projects um read about the history of Nfd projects how they work. Um, potentially try to get involved into 1 of their discourse just to see how it is um, look online at the look at how the blockchain sells.
04:46.19 charukaarora You’ll reflect upon.
04:51.60 charukaarora Yeah.
04:57.63 charukaarora Yes, we.
04:58.34 Tam Gryn Work you know from the person who created the first nfd how it goes from hand to hand read about their royalties read about the different platforms out there. How are they different from each other I’m going to to spend more time doing courses and education around this because.
05:15.59 charukaarora Oh wow.
05:18.90 Tam Gryn I Do want as many artists curators and creative communities as possible to like move on to like a more sustainable model. Um, so I would like I will always be posting like about resources like this but again this is like um.
05:25.93 charukaarora Yeah.
05:35.42 Tam Gryn Ah, plane that’s being built while it’s flying in midair so there is no place right now where all the information is centralized like I spent years ah listening to podcasts and looking at Youtube videos and reading tweet tweets and just like um.
05:37.44 charukaarora Um, yeah, is that? yeah.
05:53.66 Tam Gryn It’s a never ending learning process because it’s being built. So I think it’s at super exciting moments for artists to start looking into this and I’m sure they’ll find the space.
05:54.97 charukaarora Yeah, yeah, yeah.
06:07.49 Tam Gryn Of what they what it is. They want to create and what it it how it is that they want to contribute to this movement and ah contribute to their communities that have been supporting us and all of our practices for all of web 2
06:09.77 charukaarora Yes.
06:21.21 charukaarora Oh wow that sounds amazing. Okay, would you also want to talk a little bit about rally creators and what is exactly rally creators and what you’re doing with ralicators. So.
06:33.59 Tam Gryn Um, yes, so right now people are really obsessing about and nfds because it’s like the first crypto tool that people know about but the truth is that there are more than just an fds in that rally we believe that.
06:44.26 charukaarora Yeah.
06:51.32 Tam Gryn Ah, true, autonomous economies is composed of Nfd’s social tokens and community building tools such as Discord and many many others that are coming up. Um, so social tokens are the.
06:56.70 charukaarora Okay, ah.
07:11.10 Tam Gryn Cryptocurrency of a community. So imagine that you had your own social token for your podcast. It would be called like the chakura token and we would mint it on the blockchain. So it’s actual liquid money that you can use within your community. Um.
07:20.89 charukaarora Okay, okay, yeah.
07:30.80 Tam Gryn So imagine like a Starbucks rewards type of system but yet you can actually like imagine that you could liquidate your starbulls rewards into us dollars like how much more powerful would that be or like how much more power like voting and governance.
07:33.48 charukaarora Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay, that becomes.
07:50.60 Tam Gryn Power You would have as a consumer of Starbucks if you actually own part of that economy. Um, so again because the creative process is like in a feedback loop with the audience. You know there is no musication without an audience. There is no.
07:56.31 charukaarora And yeah.
08:09.95 Tam Gryn You know artists without the whole ecosystem of museum and museum goers and artists and galleries etc. So um, we’ve created this tokens at Raley creator so that we can bind the community together and so that we can all monetize together. So the artist.
08:20.74 charukaarora E. Okay.
08:29.95 Tam Gryn Or the museum or whoever is issuing this social token is the major shareholder of an independent economy that needs doesn’t need a bank and doesn’t need a third party and doesn’t need to be in a specific location and doesn’t need to be. Ah.
08:35.24 charukaarora Opinion.
08:47.75 Tam Gryn Governed by any of like traditional money loss and can share that wealth within the community so you can say something like you know whoever holds a Hundred or 200 of my tokens will be able to come with me to studio visits or um.
08:50.36 charukaarora Okay.
09:02.76 charukaarora Oh wow.
09:06.40 Tam Gryn I’m going to issue N f these which you can buy with my tokens or you know tickets to my next show will be bought with my token so instead of using like a traditional economy you would use your own your own autonomous economy and you get all of the upside from it. So if you’re.
09:13.90 charukaarora That yeah.
09:25.80 Tam Gryn Token you know, increases in value people who hold it within your community and you as well. Um, could benefit from this or a there’s you get rewarded from the system for using this tokens. There’s many ways in which this economy can grow.
09:44.20 charukaarora Um, okay oh wow, there’s so much it feels like it definitely is a whole wide world. Um, that you you need to step in I.
09:45.39 Tam Gryn And everyone involved can monetize and fundraise for their projects.
10:03.54 charukaarora I see so many artists who are still like who who are intrigued I know a lot of us are intrigued and we’re trying to find our ways and experiment and I think the best way to even learn something is just of course first is research and then second is just taking that pleate and taking 1 step at a time and just seeing.
10:16.73 Tam Gryn Um, you think.
10:22.91 Tam Gryn Um, yes.
10:23.33 charukaarora How it works and um, if it’s something that you’d be interested or not or you know if you just keep experimenting um ah okay, okay.
10:29.15 Tam Gryn Um, I’ll give you an example like a tangible example, there’s a very well-known graphic designer by the name of james summerville he used to be the sea level designer at Coca -cola so he has access.
10:42.40 charukaarora Okay, give me Okay, so.
10:47.18 Tam Gryn In his network to all of the fortune five hundred companies right? So he decided to start his own community and create his own social token in which he invited graphing designers from all over the world to be part of this community so he has like.
10:52.13 charukaarora Let’s.
11:01.48 charukaarora Okay.
11:03.60 Tam Gryn 16 year olds 18 year olds who are just starting to learn about graphic design and he has all the way up until like 80 year olds who you know who have been graphic designers and you know still are and just want to learn new techniques or.
11:11.90 charukaarora Okay.
11:19.98 Tam Gryn They want to teach young people and everyone in between and he has geographies from everywhere from Nigeria to brazil and everything in between so what he does is that. For example, 1 of his contacts like Ford Ford company says I want a new campaign for graphic design.
11:36.70 charukaarora Oh okay, oh okay, okay.
11:38.20 Tam Gryn So james brings it to his community and everybody has a chance to apply to create a a creative proposal for them and within the community they vote they decide which are the best proposals which are they gonna present and everyone gets. Paid in their own community cryptocurrency and that means that no matter where you are. You can get paid. You don’t need to be like a 30 year old in new york in order to get good Opportunities. You don’t need to go after visas. You don’t need any of the bureaucracy and permissions that you need.
11:59.60 charukaarora Oh Wow! yes.
12:15.49 Tam Gryn To work in Web tool. Ah, but it’s it’s like democratizing creative communities in a way that we’ve never seen before and James is a total pioneer but I definitely see this happening across many other creative vertical.
12:16.28 charukaarora Yeah, like.
12:29.57 charukaarora Yeah, this is so interesting and I definitely feel like you know, um, ever since I’ve been researching a little bit more every day about all of this. It does feel like it’s the tipping like it’s the it’s just the tip of the iceberg and. The whole transformation and ah, you know how industrialization urbanization all of these like this is this digitization is really going to bring a new face. Um, for this creative community and I feel like this time the face will. Will not be the gatekeepers but the artists themselves. Um I Think the biggest challenge especially with this movement I I Personally as an artist myself feel is um to take this forward a lot of artists all of us need to believe in ourselves way more than we expect. Way more than we have a habit of because um, we this is a complete chance for us to take everything in a hand and believe that we can run our own shows 1 ah hundred percent and that we can be valued way more than we’ve ever been.
13:38.51 Tam Gryn Um, yeah, yeah, that makes I think you’re right like this a historical like there’s a new renaissance happening if you think about the the renaissance in in the fourteen hundred then the.
13:41.73 charukaarora Okay.
13:52.90 charukaarora Yeah.
13:56.41 Tam Gryn It came it came about because of the printing press and the booking system like the accounting double Ledger booking system and that made.
14:02.78 charukaarora Yeah.
14:07.46 Tam Gryn You know money much more accessible to people and it made information much more accessible to people because they could print whatever they want and distribute it. They didn’t need the permission from their royalty or the permission from the church back in the day and I think you know it’s always technology that brings.
14:22.74 charukaarora Okay, units. Yes, yeah.
14:26.83 Tam Gryn This sort of like renaissance in which new ivs get distributed and new artwork is created and there’s all all of a sudden like this new Mediums and burst of creativity happening and again if you look at history. You’ll always find a parallel for what’s happening right now and.
14:44.20 charukaarora yeah yeah I can so agree to that? Okay, about ah Nftds and everything we’ve not got a chance to speak a little bit about you and I really before we end the episode I just want to ask you a few more questions about.
14:45.63 Tam Gryn This is exactly the moment that we’re living in.
15:02.38 charukaarora How you’ve been where you are today. My first question is um where we start from here is what really has brought you here. You’re you’re really passionate about um tech transformation artist. How. How do you find yourself here. How did ah, how did it all started for you.
15:22.28 Tam Gryn Um, I was you know for me the artists are my biggest inspiration. You know whenever you know I spend time with an artist in their studio or speaking to them that my mind just opens and. You know whenever you have an experience like that you kind of want everyone to to have that experience. That’s why I’m you know I decide it I’m gonna dedicate my life to advocate for the arts because I think art’s job in society is to open people’s minds. Um, and the root of all Evil is a close mind.
15:43.24 charukaarora Yes, yes.
15:58.20 Tam Gryn So um, you know it’s a very spiritual thing for me but having you know, tried everything in the art world from working for art collections working for institutions working for galleries working for art fairs creating my own you know. Um, experiential shows and then I decided that the real impact would come from trying to push the edges of the art world. You know trying to almost fight against that close mindedness that. The art world is famous for but also it’s contradictory to what art should be. You know I I don’t really like this debate of like to be or not to be art I think everything is art I think what my four and 5 year old 6 year old do is art. Um.
16:39.44 charukaarora Now.
16:48.80 charukaarora Yes, yes, absolutely.
16:53.95 Tam Gryn I Just think that the the difference between you know, important art and not important art. It’s not in the aesthetics. It’s in them. It’s in how art reflects some truth that is generational or universal.
17:01.66 charukaarora Yeah.
17:13.66 Tam Gryn That is happening at a certain moment in time that for me is important art that is why there’s certain artists that make it to museums and sort of artists who do not like are you reflecting something that people in this day and age can identify with you know.
17:30.10 charukaarora Now.
17:31.27 Tam Gryn Ah, new idea new movement and advancement in history. Even if it’s introspective work. It has like it somehow has to relate to other people and it has to relate to like a certain moment in time and you know when I first heard about crypto i.
17:36.17 charukaarora Yeah. Yeah, um, yes.
17:49.38 Tam Gryn I had this sort of a epiphany which you know you learn how to recognize within yourself at a certain age. Um in which you know you know truth when you see it and you know there’s no technology in the world that is perfect. There’s no technology in the world that doesn’t come with a dark side or an evil side.
17:58.48 charukaarora Yes.
18:06.55 charukaarora Yes, absolutely.
18:09.22 Tam Gryn But I think the the benefits of crypto definitely outweigh the negative and we live in an age where artists have increasing power like in crypto artists have all of the power and it’s just.
18:17.32 charukaarora Negatives.
18:22.87 charukaarora Ah, La was yes.
18:26.99 Tam Gryn Very exciting to see artists like just taking that leverage and everything they have built in the last twenty years and using it to call the shots and tell their communities how they want to work to be able to.
18:41.80 charukaarora I.
18:43.60 Tam Gryn Ah, for all of us to be able to live our passions and also monetize from them. It’s the first time in history that happened.
18:47.95 charukaarora Um, yeah, yes, this is so true and I think it’s even more I think what’s what is exciting what you’re seeing today is exciting. But what’s what’s even more exciting is how we’re all at such a. Such a great time where we are going to witness this transformation this change that’s going to happen the shifting movement. Um, because again, it’s all about this process. Of course we reach a destination somebody or the other but everything that happens in between is.
19:16.55 Tam Gryn Um.
19:23.82 charukaarora Is an experience in itself. Okay I want to see I Want to say a big thank you for your time Tam and thank you so much for answering all, um, all my questions I I still have a lot of.
19:24.64 Tam Gryn Um, yeah, yeah, that’s totally right.
19:42.21 charukaarora Them I know a lot of people who would be listening to this episode would have but you’ve given us a way forward. Um I am so intrigued now I think after this the next tip I’m going to do is do my research and you’ve given me this great ideas. Maybe you’ll maybe not I will I will send.
19:59.37 Tam Gryn Um, no.
20:01.52 charukaarora Very soon you would see the the channel for um arts 2 hearts, the social tokens because I feel like um as someone who’s also like actively creating a community and I work in it I’m I’m running an international community and for me I Think the biggest challenge is I Also want to. Learn ways where I can unify my my community and audience and give a sense of belongingness that does not matter that what part of the world that you all come from but when we hear we all feel same. We all feel connected and it would be really exciting to.
20:29.54 Tam Gryn Um, yeah.
20:39.31 charukaarora You know to have something that you know that that is our own. So maybe yes, we’ll have the ax tokens. We’ll have yes I and I’m going to keep you dated about it and I’m I hope more people are listening. Yes, yes, we will.
20:49.40 Tam Gryn Um, okay I’m excited to support you? Yeah um.
20:56.58 charukaarora Okay I Want to say a big. Thank you again. Thank you so much for your time I Really appreciate you. Thank you? Okay, last question. Thank you? Okay, my last my last question is do you have something that you would want to share with us any project that you’re working on that people can.
20:57.12 Tam Gryn Um, thank you for having me. Thank you so much for having me. Yes.
21:14.33 charukaarora Follow up on look at and where can people find you um, support you and just learn more your courses everything that you’ve been offering.
21:23.65 Tam Gryn Yeah, so I’ve been spending a lot of time in Twitter lately just because that’s where that’s where crypto is like the same way art is on Instagram most of the crypto world is on Twitter and they’re almost like 2 different things that I’m trying to unite.
21:29.77 charukaarora Who found.
21:36.30 charukaarora Yeah, Say. I.
21:43.60 Tam Gryn Um, but I’m always posting my thoughts about it where I think artists should do and be doing and start thinking about. Um you should follow rally rally that I owe rally creators which is crypto for creative communities. Ah, and.
21:54.00 charukaarora And net.
22:01.63 Tam Gryn Just learn as much as you can about this web 3 movement and how to get involved because it’s a movement about creativity and abundance together.
22:11.30 charukaarora Oh My God I Love that this I am we This is so so amazing I think it’s so empowering Also even as artists to feel that we’re such at a great time right now because never in history have this happened before never have. Art is given like can take It’s not even given I mean you can if you are ready if you want you can take all the power in your hand and you know live the live the way that you want and you know work The way you want So It’ll be very interesting to see more and more creatives. Pave their own parts literally.
22:51.70 Tam Gryn Yes, exactly.
22:54.88 charukaarora Okay, thank you so much time I’m going to link times Instagram Twitter rally creators and everything else that we’ve spoken about in this episode in the show notes. So make sure you check out the show notes for this episode. You’ll find all the links mentioned.
22:58.52 Tam Gryn Thank you.
23:13.87 charukaarora Here and about timem and all the work that she’s been doing. Thank you so much timem I hope I can see you very soon again and I’ll keep you updated on the channel and the social toins and I’m going to send you first. You will be the first person to receive it.
23:28.14 Tam Gryn Um, thank you so much. Um, bye.
23:30.37 charukaarora Thank you bye you’ll have to wait. Sorry.

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